Note: See also the files: bread-msg, breadmaking-msg, desserts-msg, pancakes-msg, utensils-msg, cookies-msg, flour-msg



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wafers-msg – 9/4/11
Period wafers. Waffles. Wafer recipes and directions. wafer irons.
NOTE: See also the files: bread-msg, breadmaking-msg, desserts-msg, pancakes-msg, utensils-msg, cookies-msg, flour-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************


Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:52:14 -0800

From: david friedman

Subject: Re: Wafer recipe (WAS: Re: Re: SC - Weekend Tart Review and

Cookie request!


Chimene asked about wafer recipes. Here is what the Menagier de Paris has

to say about wafers or waffles (the word could be translated either way):


"Waffles are made in four ways. In the first, beat eggs in a bowl, then

salt and wine, and add flour, and moisten the one with the other, and then

put in two irons little by little, each time using as much batter as a

slice of cheese is wide, and clap between two irons, and cook one side and

then the other; and if the iron does not easily release the batter, anoint

with a little cloth soaked in oil or fat. - The second way is like the

first, but add cheese, that is, spread the batter as though making a tart

or pie, then put slices of cheese in the middle, and cover the edges (with

batter: JH); thus the cheese stays within the batter and thus you put it

between two irons. - The third method, is for dropped waffles, called

dropped only because the batter is thinner like clear soup, made as above;

and throw in with it fine cheese grated; and mix it all together. - The

fourth method is with flour mixed with water, salt and wine, without eggs

or cheese.


"Item, waffles can be used when one speaks of the "large sticks" which are

made of flour mixed with eggs and powdered ginger beaten together, and made

as big as and shaped like sausages; cook between two irons."
This is the Janet Hinson translation.
Elizabeth/Betty Cook

Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:29:23 -0500

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - Waffres ala Master Huen


>I bow to your expertise, M'Lady.

>However, putting the stomach of a luce, or of a pike into such a delicate

>recipe makes no sense. It would add a strong fishy taste, and very little

>else.

>Would it be entirely off base to think that perhaps, since this is a fish day



>recipe, in an effort to add the character of fowl eggs, which were forbidden,

>the cook chose to use fish eggs?

>

>Mordonna


Um, the recipe *does* call for hen's eggs, unless luce eggs are big enough

to crack & separate?:


Harleian MS. 279 - Leche Vyaundez
xxiiij. Waffres. Take [th]e Wombe of A luce, & se[th]e here wyl, & do it

on a morter, & tender chese [th]er-to, grynde hem y-fere; [th]an take

flowre an whyte of Eyroun & bete to-gedere, [th]en take Sugre an pouder of

Gyngere, & do al to-gederys, & loke [th]at [th]in Eyroun ben hote, & ley

[th]er-on of [th]in paste, & [th]an make [th]in waffrys, & serue yn.
24. Wafers. Take the Stomach of A pike, & seethe her well, & put it in a

mortar, & tender cheese thereto, grind them together; then take flour and

white of Eggs & beat together, then take Sugar and powder of Ginger, & put

all together, & look that thine Eggs are hot, & lay thereon of thine paste,

& then make thine wafers, & serve in.
I find the method somewhat confusing, unless we're being instructed to make

2 mixtures, i.e., a thick one with the fish & cheese, & another mixture

with flour, eggwhite, sugar & ginger. Le Menagier (Goodman, p. 306) gives

instructions for cheese wafers that don't leak, in which the paste is

spread out, filled with strips of cheese, & then the ends of the paste are

folded into the middle, & the whole thing transferred to the waffle iron &

cooked. I think that's what is happening here.
( Pocket sandwiches are period! ;D )
Stirring up trouble,
Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu

renfrow at skylands.net

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 02:01:53 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy

Subject: SC - Quick and Dirty Wafer Redaction
I don’t recall if this has been worked on or commented on by anybody on

the list, but I had occasion to make some wafers for an event I’m going

to Saturday, and I figured an account of the proceedings might be

helpful to someone.


From Gervase Markham’s "The English Hus-Wife", 1615, Michael Best

edition, ©1986 McGill-Queens University Press, Kingston and Montreal:


"To make wafers
To make the best wafers, take the finest wheat flour you can get, and

mix it with cream, the yolks of eggs, rose-water, sugar, and cinnamon

till it be a little thicker than pancake batter; and then, warming your

wafer irons on a charcoal fire, anoint them first with sweet butter, and

then lay your batter and press it, and bake it white or brown at your pleasure."
After consulting a few Italian pizzelle recipes for some basic

proportions, I ended up with the following:


3 cups (~450 grams plain) all-purpose flour

1 U.S. pint (~500 grams) heavy cream

6 large egg yolks, beaten

1/4 - 1/2 cup (60 - 120 grams) rosewater

1 cup (~250 grams) sugar

1/8 teaspoon (~1 ml) ground cinnamon

pinch salt
Sift the flour, cinnamon, and the salt together, set aside. Beat the egg

yolks and sugar together until light and bright yellow. Add the cream

and 1/4 cup (60 grams) rosewater, mix thoroughly. Fold the dry

ingredients into the liquid. If the batter is too thick, you can thin it

with more rosewater until it is clearly a soft batter but too thick to

easily pour: your basic American "cream" cake batter.


Heat a pizzelle or other wafer iron for two or three minutes; if it’s

the kind that you sit on a stove burner, heat each side for two minutes.

Brush a little melted butter on the inside of the irons, and spoon an

appropriate amount of batter into the irons. You’ll need to experiment

to get the exact amount and placement right. My old-fashioned 5-inch

pizzelle iron uses a heaping teaspoon of batter (roughly a level

dessertspoon for those that use such measures). Bake till golden, and be

aware that the wafers will continue to brown a bit after they come out

of the irons. Cool on a cake rack until crispy or roll into tubes or

cones while hot and flexible. Makes about three dozen, depending on the

size of the iron, and the obvious necessity to hide several that are

unevenly browned by immediately eating them. You have your reputation to

consider, after all.
Historically, most of the wafers eaten in period Europe appear not to

have been very sweet, but I’ve used a fair amount of sugar both to

appease the tastes of those who will look at a wafer and see a cookie,

and to achieve a crisp but tender, sort of brittle, product.

Un-or-barely-sweetened wafers, such as the cheese wafers mentioned in Le

Menagier de Paris, should probably be made with a much softer flour than

AP, probably some kind of pastry flour would be the way to get them

decently crisp without a lot of sugar. AP tends to be slightly glutinous

in this wafer when unsweetened, especially when using dilute or

secondary shortening sources like egg yolks and cream. Of course, we

can’t really be sure how crispy wafers were supposed to get in period, either.
If you manage to bring leftovers home from events, they make excellent

ice cream sandwiches... .


Adamantius

Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:52:39 EST

From: Aelfwyn at aol.com

Subject: SC - Wafers/Oblaten


Just a couple of additional mail order sources I spotted this week for those

curious;
King Arthur Flour carries "Baking Wafers" in 2 sizes and offers free shipping

on them. It mentions that they "are designed to cradle certain German cookies

as they bake on a baking sheet; they're a kind of edible parchment."

1-800-827-6836 or www.kingarthurflour.com
The Stash Tea Spring catalog offers "Dessert Wafers" "Faithfully baked

following a 200 year old European recipe, these delicate crisp wafers are made

of pounded almonds, sweet butter, pure cane sugar and rare bourbon vanilla

beans." The most interesting part is the tin these come in that says "The

Original Carlsbad Oblaten" on the outside! 1-800-826-4218 or

www.stashtea.com


The catalog queen; Aelfwyn

Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:57:01 -0600 (CST)

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)

Subject: SC - German Oblaten


Greetings! The term probably _does_ refer to communion-type wafers

since they are still commercially available. The German import house

here in Cleveland had at least three different sizes a number of years

ago which I used for the base of my small marchpanes. The modern

oblaten are very white and papery, which reminds many of us of the

communion wafers that melt in the mouth, or that "papery" substance

used on Italian nougats. How papery the German wafers would have been

in the 1500s and 1600s, I don't know.


English marchpanes call for the marzipan to be laid on "wafers". IIRC,

at least one recipe calls for layering the wafers to increase the

dimension of the marchpane. Some English recipes for marchpanes

indicate that their thickness is about "two fingers", again IIRC.


Alys Katharine

Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:33:30 -0700

From: david friedman

Subject: Re: SC - Recipies


At 11:06 AM -0700 5/13/99, Nancy Santella wrote:

...


>Crisps

>From the mother of Canstance Waite


If you want a period recipe for this sort of thing take a look at the

wafers recipe (I don't remember how it is spelled) in Le Menagier; the

Hinson translation is webbed on my page (follow the medieval link).
David/Cariadoc

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 06:43:19 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy

Subject: Re: SC - wafer help
Stefan li Rous wrote:

> This page says "complete with cone roller" and shows a shallow wooden

> cone with a handle on it. Anyone know what this cone is for? To roll

> the fresh, soft pizelle around to get a cone? Since you are mashing

> the dough between two hot surfaces, I don't think it is for smoothing

> the wafer with. If it is to make a cone with, is their any evidence of

> this cone shape being used in period? I just remembered seeing "rolled".
The Larousse (that's Larousse, not Li Rous ; ) ) Gastronomique speaks

of the habit of rolling wafers into both tubes and cornucopia while hot,

becoming brittle as they cool, and says the practice is quite old. We

know, of course, well, Larousse has been known to have a Francocentric

view of both world history and food history (as does Toussaint-Hamat, if

I've got the name right) so the occasional error shows up which is as

wide in dissemination as it is in inaccuracy. Or maybe the other way

around; I haven't had my tea yet, leemee alone. It has some alleged

facts in it which are, well, alleged.
But yes, they do seem to at least imply that rolling wafers into cones

was not unheard of in period. The main problem is that the recipes and

other information we have suggests wafers weren't always crispy enough

to make holding a formed shape likely. I wonder if a cone might have

been wrapped around cheese?
Adamantius

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 06:49:32 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy

Subject: Re: SC - Pizelles


> I think I missed the post that this is a reply to. Are pizelles period? We

> make 'em all the time around here, but I never thought they were period.

> Caitlin ingen ui Dalaig
Wafers seem to have been widely eaten in period Europe, and pizelle

irons seem to be a pretty good way to recreate the shape and pattern of

a wafer. Pizelles tend to be made according to a somewhat different

recipe, with eggs usually separated, more sugar, etc., but they are

presumably a reasonably close descendant.
Gervase Markham's "The English Hus-Wife", c. 1615, gives a wafer recipe

that works quite well with a pizelle iron.


Adamantius

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:48:34 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy

Subject: Re: SC - Wafer recipes please?


Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:

> does anyone have a reconstructed recipe that they like for wafers???


I'm almost positive (no, I _am_ positive) I posted a reconstruction of

the Markham wafer recipe from The English Hus-wife, 1615, in March or so,

maybe early April. Trouble is, I now can't find it.
By any chance did anyone see it? It worked _really_ well except for a

tendency to brown a bit blotchy if you're not careful: I attribute this

to the milk solids in the cream.
[His original recipe is given further up in this file. - editor]
Adamantius

Subject: Re: wafers

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:17:57 -0600 (MDT)

From: Linda Peterson

To: Stefan li Rous
Ps. I was just looking at the Maid of Scandinavia, which jogged my memory

that the wafer irons are sometimes refered to as krumkake irons, which may

help in your search. The site also had some recipes under the krumkake

heading. Mirhaxa


[the URL is: http://www.sweetc.com/maid.htm -ed]

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:07:42 EDT

From: Korrin S DaArdain

Subject: Re: SC - Wafer recipes please? OOP - Recipe


Not a period recipe but it is a start.
Cooky Cones
3 eggs

2/3 cup sugar

2/3 cup butter / margarine

2 tsp vanilla

1 tsp almond extract

1 cup all purpose flour


Use a krumkakka iron; bake and roll to cone form, either free hand or

around a cone form.

In a medium sized mixing bowl, beat together eggs, sugar, melted butter,

vanilla, and almond extract. stir in flour until smoothly blended.

Place flat griddle plates on electric waffle iron and preeheat to medium

hot; or use a krumkakka iron.

Makes about 18 small or 9 large cones.

Source: Betty Storrey; Kerman, Cal. via Sunset Magazine 6/83.


Korrin S. DaArdain

Kitchen Steward of Household Port Karr

Kingdom of An Tir in the Society for Creative Anachronism.

Korrin.DaArdain at Juno.com

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:00:42 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy

Subject: Re: SC - Revisited Wafers Redaction
The wafers in question, BTW, go great with the "snow" from the New

Proper Boke of Cookery, a stiff-whipped mixture of egg whites and heavy

cream, sweetened with sugar and flavored with rosewater.
Adamantius

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:14:35 -0700 (PDT)

From: Laura C Minnick

Subject: Re: SC - Wafer recipes please?


I just checked- there is a readaction of a wafes recipe from _menagier de

Paris_ in _Pleyn Delit_. I don't have an iron so I tried doing it like a

crepe. Interesting, but not what I wanted. My birthday is in November...

;-)
'Lainie

- -

Laura C. Minnick



Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:32:53 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D."

Subject: RE: SC - Cone History
> Is there a linguistic relationship between wafer and waffle? Could these

> terms have become applied to items cooked between layers of metal?

>

> Mirhaxa



> mirhaxa at morktorn.com
Wafer derives from the Middle English wafre which comes from the Old

Northern French waufre which is apparently of Germanic origin. Waffle

derives from the Dutch wafel.
Wafers are thin, crisp biscuits, cookies, cakes or candies. Waffles are

battercakes cooked in or on an iron mold. These definitions suggest that

wafers and waffles are two different classes of dish with some overlap. So,

the terms get put on the list for my next trip to the OED.


Bear

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 22:00:12 -0700

From: "Laura C. Minnick"

Subject: Re: SC - Recipe needed


Kerri Canepa wrote:

> All this talk about pizzelle made me go out and buy one. That and we're going

> to serve wafers at the 12th Night feast next January.

> Is there an authentic wafer recipe? I'd like to have time to play with making

> wafers before the real thing.
There is a wafer recipe from _Menagier de Paris_ redacted and ready in

_Pleyn Delit_. You might want to see what MP has, since the editors of

PD mention that some of the wafers have cheese and some don't. You might

want to look at sweet as well as savories...


'Lainie

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 00:25:33 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D."

Subject: RE: SC - Recipe needed


Scully's redaction of Menagier's recipe from Early French Cookery:
Wafers (makes about 30 4-inch round wafers)
(Imperial measure)
4 eggs

1 tsp salt

2 tbsp sugar

4 tbsp dessert wine

2-3 tsp oil or fat

1/2 cup + 2 tbsp all purpose flour

1-2 tbsp sugar
Beat eggs lightly.

Whisk in salt, wine, oil and sugar.

Whisk in flour 1 tablespoon at a time until a smooth runny paste is reached.

Drop 1 tablespoon at a time onto a hot sandwich grill or Krumcake iron.

Close grill and press on lid. Cook until lightly brown--about 1 minute.

Sprinkle with sugar. Store in airtight container in cool, dry place until

needed.

Re-crisp in a low oven (275 F) before serving.


Bear

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 06:15:21 GMT

From: kerric at pobox.alaska.net (Kerri Canepa)

Subject: SC - Adventures with wafers - part the second (long)


In the continuing testing of wafers, today's endeavors involved Scully's

redaction of one of the wafer recipes from Menagier. Thanks, Bear.


Scully's redaction of Menagier's recipe from Early French Cookery:
Wafers (makes about 30 4-inch round wafers)
(Imperial measure)
4 eggs

1 tsp salt

2 tbsp sugar

4 tbsp dessert wine

2-3 tsp oil or fat

1/2 cup + 2 tbsp all purpose flour

1-2 tbsp sugar
The dessert wine was Madeira (it's what my apprentice had on hand) and the oil

was soybean (also, what was available).


Beat eggs lightly.

Whisk in salt, wine, oil and sugar.

Whisk in flour 1 tablespoon at a time until a smooth runny paste is reached.

Drop 1 tablespoon at a time onto a hot sandwich grill or Krumcake iron.

Close grill and press on lid. Cook until lightly brown--about 1 minute.

Sprinkle with sugar.


The final measures were as stated except for 1/2 cup + 1 1/2 tbsp flour and 2

tbsp of oil.


The batter was clearer than the from the previous recipe but then there was less

flour and more egg in it, but it had the right consistency.


Learning from the first trials, I set the burner on 8 and let it heat up until

water sizzled off the top. Put about a tablespoon or so of batter on the iron

and closed it. I thought there was much whooshing of steam and squirting of

batter the last time; this was downright explosive. It was also quite a workout

on the hands (need to build up your grip? Make wafers...).
This recipe made exactly 2 dozen 5 inch wafers in about an hour and 15 minutes.

These wafers are also much softer than the previous recipe and there's plenty of

time to roll them before they harden. In fact, you'd have to hold them for a

minute or two in whatever shape you want before they'll keep that shape. The

texture is spongier and the wafers tear more than they break. I suspect the eggs

in the recipe contribute greatly to this.


As for taste, I place them more in the savory category than sweet. Again there's

less sugar than the previous recipe but also there's the addition of salt which

is absent from the first. My husband, after having been on a long distance

motorcycle trip returned home tired and hungry, snagged one of the wafers upon

walking into the kitchen and said "I don't like these as much." Well, they

aren't the subtle cookie/wafer the first batch was. However, I think the second

batch would hold up to hypocras in flavor. I don't particularly care for the

texture but then who knows what wafers were really like?


Thankfully, there were no interruptions during this test. Both the kittens

crashed and slept until I had only 3 wafers left and I thoughtfully pulled down

the smoke alarm even before turning on the stove.
I set aside four wafers from each batch to test how well they hold up to

storage. Tuesday my apprentice comes over and we'll see what the verdict is.


Kerri

Cedrin Etainnighean, OL

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 04:43:34 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy

Subject: Re: SC - Adventures with wafers - part the second (long)
Kerri Canepa wrote:

> These wafers are also much softer than the previous recipe and there's plenty of

> time to roll them before they harden. In fact, you'd have to hold them for a

> minute or two in whatever shape you want before they'll keep that shape. The

> texture is spongier and the wafers tear more than they break. I suspect the eggs

> in the recipe contribute greatly to this.

>

> As for taste, I place them more in the savory category than sweet. Again there's



> less sugar than the previous recipe but also there's the addition of salt which

> is absent from the first. My husband, after having been on a long distance

> motorcycle trip returned home tired and hungry, snagged one of the wafers upon

> walking into the kitchen and said "I don't like these as much." Well, they

> aren't the subtle cookie/wafer the first batch was. However, I think the second

> batch would hold up to hypocras in flavor. I don't particularly care for the

> texture but then who knows what wafers were really like?
I seem to recall a 16th-century French painting reprinted in the

Larousse Gastronomique, showing stacks of wafers being carried by a

waferer/wafer hawker on skewers; the impression I got from looking at it

was that they were, at least at some point in their existence, a bit on

the floppy side. There may have been a range between sweet and savory

ones (sweet ones do tend to get crisper as they cool), or they may

simply have been skewered while warm.
Adamantius

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:58:00 -0700

From: Anne-Marie Rousseau

Subject: Re: SC - Adventures with wafers -


hi all from Anne-Marie
I'd been meaning to tell you guys...at our non-SCA 15th century

re-enactment fest we made wafers with great success!


we used Adamantius' recipe and tweaking it a bit (less liquid, more flour,

etc). We used my cast iron wafer iron over the fire. Yum yum yum! Sorry, I

was in the bake house at the time making the days bread, so only got to

play with the fire, not the recipe bit, but they were awful fun to make and

even funner to eat (the dogs were even happy, since they got the ones that

the wind picked up and tossed off the wafer iron).


- --AM, who got to make bread every day in the medievally made oven. woo hoo!

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:03:06 -0500

From: Stefan li Rous

Subject: SC - Polish wafer recipe (long)


Kerri asked about the wafer recipe I mentioned in the new Polish cookbook:

> Would you please post the wafer recipe? I've got one more authentic recipe and

> one modern one left to try and I'd like more authentic ones.
Here it is. It took me a while to scan and convert it. Hope it comes through

ok. I have also included the comments that were with the recipe. As mentioned

in my earlier message neither the original recipe nor translation are given.
Now to order a pizzelle iron so I can try this and the other wafer recipes

I have.
Stefan

- ----------------

>From "Food and Deink in Medieval Poland" by Maria

Dembinska. Revised and Adapted by William Woys Weaver.

University of Pennsylvania Press 1999.


Saffron Wafers (Oplatki Szafranowe)
Saffron was more expensive in Gdansk than in Cracow or

Lvov during the Middle Ages, which suggests that distance

from market source played a key role in determining the

cost of such imported goods. A large portion of Polish

saffron appears to have come from regions bordering the

Black Sea where saffron originated, via Genoese middlemen.

Its use in Polish cookery was a mark of high status, so it

may seem contradictory that it also was commonly used in

foods associated with fasting. Yet saffron wafers were

served at the Polish court during meatless days or at the

end of the meal with various confections and Malvasia wine.
Because they also contained sugar, the wafers were

generally made by specialized confectioners and were

therefore not only sweet but also expensive. Part of the

expense (aside from the saffron and sugar) was high-quality

flour, which had to be farina alba cribrata - the finest

sort. Another reason for the cost was manufacture, for the

art of wafer making is a distinct craft unto itself, and

rather tedious. In spite of this, a good wafer baker was

said to produce about one thousand wafers a day. Indeed, it

was sometimes a specialty of nunneries or monasteries,

which derived income from the sale of such goods.
Wafers were made with irons ornamented with various

patterns that were impressed into the surface of the wafer

as it baked. Polish irons were normally round, although

rectangular North German and Dutch types were also used in

Gdansk and Pomerania.(6) Metal wafer irons are mentioned

in several medieval sources and on occasion they are

depicted, but none have survived intact. The images were

generally religious, and an especially good wafer maker

would have several sets of irons on hand to meet the demand

of funerals, weddings, and special religious feasts, such

as Easter or Christmas, For everyday use, the royal court

probably served wafers impressed with the royal coat of

arms, or the coat of arms of a special guest if the

intention was to flatter or impress.


Since sugar absorbs and amplifies flavors, wafers must be

made over a smokeless heat source, the most common being a

charcoal stove. This technique requires considerable

practice because the iron must be turned constantly to keep

both halves evenly heated. The iron must be also kept hot

while it is being refilled with wafer batter Last, the

wafers must be trimmed while they are hot and soft and

still in the iron; once cool, they become brittle and break

easily. All of this implies speed and a steady hand with a

very sharp knife. Having tested this recipe with a wafer

iron from the 1500s, I can report that total baking time

per wafer should be about 6 minutes, or 3

minutes per side, depending on the type of metal from which

the iron is is made (there are several alloys) and its thickness.

Accomplished wafer bakers could probably do this in half

the time; I was somewhat restrained by the cautious use of

antique equipment.
1 cup (250 g) double sifted pastry flour
1 cup (250 g) superfine sugar (white sugar ground to a fine

powder, called bar sugar in the United States)


1/4 teaspoon finely ground saffron
4 egg whites
2 to 3 tablespoons (30 to 45 ml) rosewater
poppy seed oil
Yield: About 30 wafers, depending on the size of the iron
Before assembling the ingredients, which should be at room

temperature, light a charcoal grill or old-style charcoal

stove so that the coals have a good 30 minutes to heat and

reduce to embers. Do not use self-lighting charcoal, since

this will give the wafers a burned petroleum flavor.
Sift together the flour, sugar and saffron three

times. Whisk the egg whites until they are stiff and form

peaks, then fold them into the dry ingredients. Moisten

with rose water so that it forms a thick batter.


Heat both sides of the wafer iron (or a pizzelle

iron) over the charcoal stove or grill. When evenly hot on

both sides, open the iron and grease it liberally. Put some

of the batter on one side and let it spread. Slowly close

up the iron but do not press hard, just enough to force the

batter out to the edges. Turn the iron over the coals often

until the batter begins to bubble around the edges, then

press tightly and hold it firmly together, turning the iron

several times (this will caramelize the sugar and cause the

wafer to stiffen). Batter that has run out of the edges can

now be trimmed off neatly with a very sharp knife. Once the

wafer tests done, the iron can be opened and the wafer

removed with the help of a knife. Repeat until all the

batter is used. Perfectly made wafers will bake paper-thin

and turn out a golden fawn color. Once cool, they can be

stored several months in airtight containers.

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:01:23 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy

Subject: Re: SC - Polish wafer recipe (long)
Tollhase1 at aol.com wrote:

> I am having a hard time picturing the iron. Is it similar to the campfire

> iron things that hamburgers or sealed sandwiches are sometimes cooked in only

> smaller? And where could you find such a thing?

>

> Frederich


Fairly similar, except not as deep, so your wafer is much thinner than a

grilled cheese sandwich, and with a pattern it stamps into the surface

of the wafer.
Like the grilling iron you mention, it has two plates hinged together on

one edge, with a steel rod sticking out of each plate opposite the

hinge, and a wooden handle on each rod. You can lay it flat on the

burners of your stove, or hold it over a flame, and pour/spoon a

somewhat thick batter (thin ones are too messy; they squirt out around

the edges) onto your hot, greased/seasoned irons, close the irons and

hold the handles together, rather like a nut cracker. Somewhere along

the line you can flip the iron over to brown the other side of your wafer.


Various European import stores are good places to find suitable irons,

sold as krumkake or pizelle irons. If all else fails there's always

Williams-Sonoma, but I wouldn't go there first.
Adamantius

Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 00:18:14 GMT

From: kerric at pobox.alaska.net (Kerri Canepa)

Subject: SC - Adventures with wafers - part the third (long)


Since I haven't seen _Food and Drink in Medieval Poland_ myself yet, I decided

to try to get a little more information about the saffron wafers recipe which

Stefan so kindly quoted for me.
I tracked down the editor of the Middle Ages series for the University of

Pennsylvania Press (UPenn Press published _Food and Drink_) to ask a few

questions. What follows is our conversation.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>I don't know if this book, recently published by UPenn Press, is considered

>part of the Middle Ages series but it seemed a good place to try.

>

>The book is _Food and Drink in Medieval Poland_, the author is Maria Dembinska



>and it was published in 1999. Is there anyway to contact Ms. Dembinska via email?

>I'm an amateur food historian and I have some questions concerning one of the

>recipes (for Saffron Wafers). In particular, I'd like to see the original Polish recipe

>(with a date) and her English translation of it. What's in the book is a modern

>adaptation of the original recipe and I'm interested in a translation.

>

>If she is not available through email but has a physical address, I would appreciate



>receiving it.

>

>Thanks for your help,



>

>Kerri Canepa

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Dear Ms. Canepa:

>

>Maria Dembinska is deceased, but I will forward your message to the book's



>editor and adaptor, William Woys Weaver; I'm sure he will be able to answer

>your queries.

>

>With best regards,



>

>Jerry Singerman

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Dear Ms. Canepa:

>

>Below, the response from Will Weaver to your query. The original recipe no



>longer survives as such; what he and Dembinska strove to do was to recreate

>the recipes as accurately as possible.

>

>"You might respond to the inquiry this way: The royal accounts



>mention saffron wafers often and purchase orders note the basic ingredients

>only when the wafers were made "in house." Sometimes they were purchased

>from outside the royal castle (probably from a nunnery or a professional

>wafer baker). Our only task was to figure out the proportions. Maria

>interviewed some elderly nuns from a nunnery at Stary Sacz (I believe) to see

>how they made them. There is a Czech medieval mss that shows either a king

>or saint holding a wafer iron (11th century I believe--it is depicted in the

>wafer book cited in the bibliography). So we had ingredients, we had oral

>material, and we had a visual source. We then looked at late medieval and

>early renaissance cookery mss to see what the proportions were like. Nearly

>all of the recipes were the same, I imagine because there is a very narrow

>band one must stay within in order to make the wafer recipe work. Maria was

>even convinced many of the recipes copied one another, which is doubtless

>true. I do not know what happened to her notes or personal files, but I

>suppose I could retrieve an old recipe from an Italian or French source, if

>that is what the food historian is looking for." W3

>

>I hope this helps.



>

>Jerry Singerman

>

>Jerome E. Singerman



>Humanities Editor

>University of Pennsylvania Press

>4200 Pine Street

>Philadelphia, PA 19104-4011

>

>tel: 215 898-1681



>fax: 215 898-0404

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, as you can see, the saffron wafer recipe as given is an interpretation. I'll

post my results of this recipe when I next play with it.


Kerri

Cedrin Etainnighean, OL

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:18:16 GMT

From: kerric at pobox.alaska.net (Kerri Canepa)

Subject: Re: SC - poppy seed oil
Stefan,

>I am planning on trying the saffron wafers in "Food and Drink in Medieval

>Poland" tomorrow. In the recipe it calls for poppy seed oil to coat the

>wafer iron.


Ooh, let me know how the wafers turn out. I haven't had a chance to play with that recipe yet.
>All I could find today, in my large specialty store Central Market, and

>my regular HRB grocery was olive oil (lots of olive oils), seseme oil,

>walnut oil, almond oil and some more modern ones (I assume) such as

>safflower oil, peanut oil, sunflower seed oil and some others.

>

>I bought some almond oil because I thought my first choice, walnut



>oil might lend too much nut taste. As this oil is in direct contact

>with the wafer, the taste may matter. Can anyone tell me if poppyseed

>oil has much of a taste and if so, what it is? Should I use olive oil?

>I have no idea if these different oils have different smoke points

>and whether it would matter in this application.
I've never used poppy seed oil or walnut oil for that matter. I would think that

they would impart a slight flavor but if the wafer is flavored with saffron and

sugar, then I doubt the oil is going to make that much of an impression. Also, you don't need to use much oil at all or it drips out everywhere. Depending on

the olive oil (the more "virgin" and lighter in color it is, the less strongly flavored), you could try it.


>The wafer iron does have a non-stick coating. Should I just omit the>oil?
That or experiment; do some without and some with oil. It sounds like you have

an electric pizzelle maker so I don't think you need to worry too much about the

smoking point of oils. It's something I have to take into account since I'm

using a hand held over the stove pizzelle maker with less heat control.

Using my pizzelle maker I found that after a certain point, no fats were

necessary to keep the wafer from sticking. I may have been partially due to the

high heat I kept it at, but I couldn't really say for sure.
As an aside, this quote from _Food and Drink in Medieval Poland_

>Metal wafer irons are mentioned

>in several medieval sources and on occasion they are

>depicted, but none have survived intact.


I can at least address. While visiting Buonconsiglia Castle in Trento, Italy,

there was an iron wafer maker on display (with, of course, no identifying notes

or anything) with an heraldic design carved into it. Since the castle had

continuous inhabitants until well into the early 19th c, it could have been from

any number of time periods. Since the heraldry was of the fellow who was a big

honcho during the Council of Trent times, it's likely the iron is from the early

to mid 16th c. Yeah, it's not medieval but it is authentic.
Kerri

Cedrin Etainnighean, OL

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:10:08 -0700

From: "Morrigan O'Malley"

Subject: Re: SC - poppy seed oil
>>The wafer iron does have a non-stick coating. Should I just omit the

>>oil?
When I borrowed a pizzelle maker from an Italian friend of mine, he

specifically instructed me _not_ to oil it, as there was more than

sufficient oil in the recipe to prevent the wafers from sticking. It

wasn't a non-stick kind, but steel.
I don't know the recipe being used, but if it has a high oil content,

perhaps that would be sufficient?


Lemming Cook

Flaming Lemming Inn

proposed canton of Cross, Montengarde, Avacal, An Tir

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:00:36 EDT

From: ChannonM at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Stefan's recent wafer experiment


stefan at texas.net writes:

<< Admantius' recipe definitely is not as sweet as the Polish one and of

course, doesn't have the saffron taste. I think I would like it sweeter

for a dessert course, but that may not be a medieval thing. I also

brushed melted margarine on the iron this time, instead of trying to pour

on almond oil. I'm not sure it needed the butter or oil though as I never

recoated the iron, but I didn't have any problems with the second or third

or fourth wafers sticking. >>
I did a feast a few years back and made "A dish of Snowe" and wanted to serve

it with wafers as is mentioned in the original recipe. Here is my work on the

wafers.
The original recipe is found in Le Menagerie de Paris, 1393
Wafers (Gauffres) be made in five ways. By one method you beat up the eggs

in a bowl then add salt and wine and throw in flour and mix them, and then

put them on two irons, little by little, each time, as much paste as the

size of a leche or strip of cheese, and press them between the two irons and

cook on both sides and if the iron doth not separate easily from the paste

grease it before hand.

The third method is that Strained Waffles (Gauffers couleisses) and they be

called strained for this reason only, that the paste is clearer and it as it

were boiled clear, after theaforesaid manner and onto it one scatters grated

cheese and all is mixed together.


The fourth method is flour made into a paste with water, salt and wine

without either eggs or cheese.

Item, the wafer makers make another kind called big sticks (gros bastons)

which be made of flour made into a paste with eggs and powdered ginger.


My Recipe

8 eggs


1 c sugar

1 c oil


2 1/2 c flour

2/3 c red wine


Combine all ingredients. Using a "pizelle" waffle maker (an Italian waffle

like cookie press) pour approximately 1/8 cup of batter into the base. Press

down and release in about 30 seconds or so. If a pizelle maker is not

available you can simply drop batter onto a hot griddle, although the pizelle

maker creates a beautiful lace like wafers. I don’t own one myself but

enquired with all of my Italian friends and their relatives and finally came

up with someone who was happy to lend it to me. The results were great.
This too did tend to brown, and I thought about using white wine, but the

flavour was soooo much better with red. I incorporated the oil into the

batter, this relieved any sticking issues and I never had to oil the iron.

However, this was a teflon iron, which may have helped although in my early

trials, they stuck anyway. In making these waffles for 150 people, the day

before, I knew that re-oiling the iron was going to be very time consuming.

However the end result was everyone enjoyed them and I was not worse for wear.
Hauviette

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 04:39:27 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy

Subject: Re: SC - wafers


Stefan li Rous wrote:

> You cooked the wafers the day before the feast? How did you serve them? Did

> you serve them cool? I had gotten the idea that wafers should be served

> warm and fresh, so I hadn't considered it workable for a normal SCA feast.


Think in terms of how wafers are made, and their overall mass to volume

ratio. They cool off pretty quickly, and a wafer iron makes one, or a

couple, at a time, and as a period cooking utensil probably was fairly

specialized and probably not especially cheap. Then you make them in

batches and, as seems to be documented in many cases, go out and hawk

them on the street like many another specialty merchant.


I don't know they'd have been eaten days old, but I imagine getting them

in quantity where all of them are hot off the irons is unlikely.


Adamantius

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:15:56 EDT

From: ChannonM at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - wafers


stefan at texas.net writes:

<< Did your wafers brown in blotches or evenly overall?
Yes
<< You cooked the wafers the day before the feast?

---yes, I kept them in sealed containers


<< How did you serve them?
I placed the "dish of snowe" in the center in a

fluffy pile, polished up some pretty red delicious apples, used an apple

corer/slicer (makes nice 1/8 wedges ) tied the apple with gold ribbon so it

didn't fall apart (I also sprayed the apple with lemon juice/water to prevent

browning. This let the feasters see the plate and then untie the ribbon to

partake in dipping them into the snowe. The original also calls for sprigs of

rosemary, as if this is snow on the branch of an evergreen tree. Then I

placed the waffles around the "snowe" and gave a slight sprinkling of

confectioners sugar (I know it contains cornstarch, but this was a feast for

over 100 people, I didn't take the time to grind superfine sugar) this step

can be omitted as it doesn't really follow the original recipe.

MMMMMMM!
<< Did

you serve them cool? I had gotten the idea that wafers should be served

warm and fresh, so I hadn't considered it workable for a normal SCA feast. >>


Yes I served them cool, but I'm not sure how you could serve them hot,

unless you flipped them off the grill onto someones lap. They were nice and

crunchy when cool. I tried rolling them and didn't have much success. It was

also very time consuming, and I weighed the different ideas about

presentation and such. There are also commercially available pizelle's here,

(Windsor) the recipe is very similar AFAIK except the wine,


Did you say you were using a pizelle maker or a regular waffle iron. The

pizelle maker produces very thin beautiful lacy stylized cookies .


Let me know what you think.
Hauviette

Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:28:55 -0700

From: "Deborah Schumacher"

Subject: RE: SC - wafers


When I worked in the Kitchen at the middle kingdoms 12th night 1998, The

Feast steward did sweet wafers. We served them on silver trays and they

were drizzled with a very simple glaze made of powdered sugar, Grand Manier

and orange juice. They had been made ahead of time and were stored in a

large tupperware container. They seemed to go over rather well. I'll see if

i can email the feast steward for her recipe, I think it was documented, as

everything else she did was. (It was my first feast working in a kitchen and

somehow i thought they were *all* like that. )

But i would think i would cook them the day before if i could, to save a

little time on the day of the feast.


Zoe

Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 00:43:53 -0500

From: david friedman

Subject: Re: SC - wafers


Stefan li Rous wrote:

>> You cooked the wafers the day before the feast? How did you serve them? Did

>> you serve them cool? I had gotten the idea that wafers should be served

>> warm and fresh, so I hadn't considered it workable for a normal SCA feast.


and Adamantius answered:

>Think in terms of how wafers are made, and their overall mass to volume

>ratio. They cool off pretty quickly, and a wafer iron makes one, or a

>couple, at a time, and as a period cooking utensil probably was fairly

>specialized and probably not especially cheap. Then you make them in

>batches and, as seems to be documented in many cases, go out and hawk

>them on the street like many another specialty merchant.

>

>I don't know they'd have been eaten days old, but I imagine getting them



>in quantity where all of them are hot off the irons is unlikely.
Rufina regularly brings pre-made wafers to the war, and they are fine as

long as they stay in a sealed container. If they sit out overnight they

tend to get limp. I believe she uses one of Le Menagier's recipes--very

tasty, but I don't know the recipe.


Elizabeth/Betty Cook

Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:14:36 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy

Subject: Re: SC - Re: Wafers


"Michael F. Gunter" wrote, about his plans for wafers:

> Yes sweet with a sprinkling of powdre douce.

>

> For a nice sounding savory wafer I recall a wafer made with



> fish and cheese that sounded appetizing.
As I recall that recipe is in "Take A Thousand Eggs or More", but I

could be mistaken, and am unable to check at the moment. Does anybody know?


As for savory wafers, yes, cheese versions exist which would probably be

ideal, but which may not be completely in keeping with people's

expectations (rightly or wrongly) of what a wafer should be: non-sweet

wafers tend to be slightly limp and rubbery compared to sweet ones, but

I'm not really sure how crisp savory wafers in period were supposed to

be. I've seen paintings of wafers skewered on a brochette for portable,

commercial sale, and they look as if they were at least, at one time,

pretty floppy.

Another solution might be to use a "sweet" wafer recipe that uses a

minimum of sugar, just as a bare seasoning, rather than a cookie-ish

flavoring. I know some of the Carr's brand of crackers or biscuits, for

example, commonly eaten with cheese, are sweetened in spite of their

being basically a savory cracker, or at least one appropriate for savory accompaniments.
The Markham recipe for wafers (he doesn't specify them as sweet or

savory, as I recall) calls for flour, egg yolks, rosewater, sugar, and

cream; you could probably use only a small amount of sugar and get away

with it.


Adamantius

Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 06:49:24 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy

Subject: Re: SC - Re: Wafers


Stefan li Rous wrote:

> > Yes, which is presumably part of why they become more rigid as they cool.

>

> The sugar is the reason the wafers harden as they cool? Why is this? Is



> the sugar softer or liquid when they come off the iron? Or is there

> something else taking place that I'm not aware of?


Probably moisture in the form of steam, which is more easily and quickly

released from a hot wafer once it's been removed from the iron, and

sugar, which is generally more fluid when warm than when cold, are the

main issues. You know how honey will run almost like water when it's

heated? Sugar, even in solid form at the start, will melt or at least

soften when hot. There may be a gluten thing happening too, whereby

proteins coagulate when hot, but then get still firmer when cold, which

many of us with children will experience over our (or our children's)

morning egg. For that matter, most wafers also contain egg, which has

proteins of its own in addition to gluten.


There are probably other factors as well, but _in general_ cooked doughs

reach maximum firmness when fresh, but cooled after cooking. I'm not

just referring to dessication or staleness.
Adamantius

Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:47:48 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D."

Subject: RE: SC - Re: Wafers


> The sugar is the reason the wafers harden as they cool? Why is this? Is

> the sugar softer or liquid when they come off the iron? Or is there

> something else taking place that I'm not aware of?

>


> Lord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
Sugar is a water soluble, crystalline compound. It changes to a liquid

state when sufficiently heated, often forming molecular chains which become

rigid on cooling, which is why cookies are soft coming out of the oven, and

harden as they cool. Sugar is mildly hygroscopic and the baking process

removes excess moisture leaving it more so. Cookies, wafers, etc. absorb

atmospheric moisture and soften over time.


Bear

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:04:15 EST

From: ChannonM at aol.com

Subject: SC - Re: Dishe of Snowe, LONG


As I had a few requests for the recipe, I'll post it here for anyone who

would like it.


Hauviette
The 'main work' herein after referred to is: A Proper Newe Booke of Cokerye,

16 Century, edited by Catherine Frances Frere, Cambridge; W. Heffer & Sons

Ltd, 1913, Found in Cariadoc's Miscellany

Sixth dish:A Dish of Snowe with French Wafers


Original Recipe- Main work page 25

To Make a Dyschefull of Snowe

Take a pottel of swete thycke creame and the whytes of eyghte egges, and

beate them altogether wyth a spone, then putte them in youre creame and a

saucerfull of Rosewater, and a dyshe full of Suger wyth all, then take a

stycke and make it cleane, and then cutte it in the ende foure square, and

therwith beate all the aforesayde thynges together and ever as it ryseth take

it of and put it into a Collaunder, this done take one apple and set it in

the myddes of it and a thicke bushe of Rosemary, and set it inn the myddes

of the platter, then cast your Snowe uppon the Rosemarye and fyll your

platter therewith. And yf you have wafers caste some in wyth all and thus

serve them forthe.


Redacted Recipe

take 2 quarts of cream, 8 egg whites, a 1/4 cup of rosewater, 1 cup of sugar

and beat the cream with a wisk and the eggs, rose water and sugar.Mix them

with the cream. Place an apple and a sprig of rosemary in the centre of a

platter and surround with the mixture. If you have wafers, place some in the

dish and serve.


Modern Version : Serves 8

1/2 pint whipping cream

1 egg white

2 tsp rosewater

1/4 cup sugar
Beat the egg white and slowly add the sugar until stiff peaks form. Beat the

whipping cream and rose water until stiff. Blend the two gently with a

folding motion. Refridgerate until used.
French Wafers
The original recipe is found in Le Menagerie de Paris, 1393
Wafers (Gauffres) be made in five ways. By one method you beat up the eggs

in a bowl then add salt and wine and throw in flour and mix them, and then

put them on two irons, little byb little, each time, as much paste as the

size of a leche or strip of cheese, and press them between the two irons and

cook on both sides and if the iron doth not separate easily from the paste

grease it before hand.

The third method is that Strained Waffles (Gauffers couleisses) and they be

called strained for this reason only, that the paste is clearer and it as it

were boiled clear, after theaforesaid manner and onto it one scatters grated

cheese and all is mixed together.


The fourth method is flour made into a paste with water, salt and wine

without either eggs or cheese.

Item, the wafer makers make another kind called big sticks (gros bastons)

which be made of flour made into a paste with eggs and powdered ginger.

Modern Recipe based on "pizelle recipe" see below

8 eggs


1 c sugar

1 c oil


2 1/2 c flour

2/3 c red wine

Combine all ingredients. Using a "pizelle" waffle maker (an Italian waffle

like cookie press) pour approximately 1/8 cup of batter into the base. Press

down and release in about 30 seconds or so. If a pizelle maker is not

available you can simply drop batter onto a hot griddle, although the pizelle

maker creates a beautiful lace like wafers. I don't own one myself but

inquired with all of my Italian friends and their elderly relatives and

finally came up with someone who was happy to lend it to me. The results were

great.


Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:57:49 -0500 (CDT)

From: Jeff Heilveil

Subject: SC - Waffles and Books
Was hunting in the library today and found some interesting

books... The Art of Dining by Sara Paston-Williams. It was originally

published by the national trust enterprises ltd. in 1993 and is

destributed in the US by Harry N. Abrams, Inc. I REALLY like what I have

seen of this one so far. She gives the original, along with the source

right in the open (along with the date written for those of us who can

never remember) and then her redactions (which aren't that great, but the

original is there) and any pictures she has found that are relevant. She

also talks about dining practices, but I just got home from work and

haven't looked at it yet. The book also covers some post-period

confections and beverages, but she is real clear about giving dates.

However, there is a picture there that is intruiging... "A dutch kitchen

scene by Joachim de Beukelae painted in the 1550s" so there's this tray of

waffles, and a long handled waffle-iron like you could purchase for

camping... Didn't know waffles were period. It doesn't look like

pastilles (SP), just rectangles with a grid on it like a... waffle. Do we

have any period recipes for the batter? Looks like they are eating

flounder too, or at least some other flattened fish with both eyes on top

of the head... There's also a loaf of bread with some need oval shapes

pressed into it.


The two other books I found I'll have to translate out of German, but I

will try to get a recipe or two done from one of them each day (err, well,

I did say I would TRY).

The one I am starting with is Kuchenmeysterey (Passau: Johann Petri, um

1486) By Rolf Ehnert. It's a small book, but a facsimile of the

Kuchenmeysterey with an afterword. copywrite 1981.


The other is Wildu machen ayn guet essen.... by Doris Aichholzer.

Published by Peter Lang. copywrite 1999.


Bogdan

_______________________________________________________________________________

Jeffrey Heilveil M.S. Ld. Bogdan de la Brasov, C.W.

Department of Entomology A Bear's paw and base vert on field argent

University of Illinois

Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:45:26 +0200

From: "Cindy M. Renfrow"

Subject: Re: SC - Waffles and Books


IIRC, Le Menagier gives several recipes for 'crisps' batter. Waffles,

wafers, crisps, whatever you want to call them are very old.


Cindy

Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:07:04 -0600

From: Serian

Subject: Re: SC - Waffles and Books


I researched waffles/wafers because I have an old family

recipe. I didn't find any batters like modern waffle

batter, but Le Menagier has 4. I've made one of them which

has cheese and red wine in them. They're quite good.


Serian

Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:23:14 -0600

From: Serian

Subject: Re: SC - Waffles and Books


One common way of serving wafers/waffles is with hippocras

and things like candied anise seeds and sugared almonds.

Check out Le menagier online. Most of the meals mention

hypocras and wafers.

Serian

http://www.best.com/%7Eddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier.html



Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:49:53 -0500

From: david friedman

Subject: Re: SC - Waffles and Books
At 9:45 AM +0200 6/30/00, Cindy M. Renfrow wrote:

>IIRC, Le Menagier gives several recipes for 'crisps' batter. Waffles,

>wafers, crisps, whatever you want to call them are very old.

>

>Cindy


I think there are three different things here:
1. Funnel cakes (the Two Fifteenth Century Crispes, and various other

things elsewhere, such as mincebek in _Two Anglo Norman_. )


2. Wafers (served with hippocras in Menagier): Presumably waffle

pattern, but more like a crisp cookie, at least as I have seen them

made.
3. Modern waffles: Waffle pattern, but thick with a pancake like texture.
Off hand, I am not sure I have seen anything that is clearly made

like a modern waffle. One thing worth checking is whether there are

any surviving wafer irons, and if so if the separation between the

plates is thin, as in a modern wafer iron, or thick, as in a waffle

iron.
David/Cariadoc

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:35:19 -0400 (EDT)

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com

Subject: SC - Waffles, Turkey, and Trifle
Greetings. Recently, there were posts (if my feeble brain recalls

correctly) about period documentation for waffles, turkey and trifle.

While bumming around during my vacation I came across some of each

and thought I'd post in case there still was interest - or it hadn't

been settled.
Waffles are pictured in a book I found at Borders, _Bruegel_ by Keith

Roberts (on sale for $5.99). Bruegel was active in the last half

of the 1500s. There are a minimum of two pictures, one with several

representations. The waffles are clearly thick, clearly gridded, and

rectangular or square. One very rectangular grouping is carried in

the hatband of the person pictured. "The Fight between Carnival and

Lent" (1559) shows four depictions and has the ones tied onto the hat.
The other painting is "The Gloomy Day (February)", 1565, and depicts

a man eating a waffle.




Alys Katharine

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:03:44 +1000

From: "Craig Jones."

Subject: SC - Wafer recipes


>Drake commented:

>> If you can get your hands on a wafer iron, I have a great "coeliac friendly"

>> saffron wafer recipe.

>

>Please post this! I'd love to have another wafer recipe. Is this, even



>better, a period recipe? The only other "saffron" wafer recipe I have

>is from the Polish cookbook discussed here recently. And I never got

>it to stick together in one piece. Lots of crumbly, good tasting, pretty

>fragments. But a pain to clean off the wafer iron and not exactly

>a "wafer".
Um, O dear. That was the recipe I used!!! I just modified it so it used Rice

flour instead. Spank me for being naughty and modifying a period recipe for my

nefarious purposes. I found the wafers crumbly too but the recipe is skewed

wrong so it ends up with the wrong consistancy. Wafer batter should be stiff

like waffle batter. I can look at the recipe tonight if you wish...
Did you lightly brush the iron with butter?
I also found that no matter how little a dollop I put in the middle, I also got

mixture squirting out the side and I noticed that there are two ways of cooking

the wafer.
1) Put a dollop of batter on and press down really quick and hard. Makes a

very thin wafer.

2) Put a dollop of batter on, wait 20-30 secs and press down slowly for a

thicker wafer (and not so much shooting out the side). Works for looser

batters.
What kind of wafer maker do you have? I have one of the swedish cast iron ones

with a scroll pattern. I produces a 4-in diameter circular wafer. My pelican

has about 3, handed down to her from her Norwegian Mother.
Cheers,
Drake.
ps. Anyone else out there have a wafer iron and some funky wafer recipes. How

common was it to serve wafers at a feast?


pps. At Lochac's Midwinter, I spent all Sunday morning cranking out Rosewater

wafers. They were a huge hit. We actually had 6 year old, in total gales

of tears. When asked by two ladies, he said 'I didn't get a pancake'.

After being regaled of this story as we were cleaning up, I cranked out a

small batch of batter and made him a couple. Never seen a set of eyes

light up when he was presnted with 3 'pancakes' just for him. A magical

moment (which are rare for me in the SCA these days).

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:20:51 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy

Subject: Re: SC - Wafer recipes


"Craig Jones." wrote:

> >> I also found that no matter how little a dollop I put in the middle, I also

> >> got mixture squirting out the side and I noticed that there are two ways of

> >> cooking the wafer.

> >

> >Yes, I sometimes had that problem. I thought I could become expert enough



> >to drop just the exact size dollop of batter in just the exact spot on

> >the wafer iron to prevent the overflow. I never did.

>

> Must be some secret ninja technique to it. As the knight's have there "13



> secret Knight Shots", I'm sure there are 13 secret cooking laurel techniques.

> Maybe have X ml of the dough loaded into a syringe and apply it to the direct

> center (measured with some secret quantum device) might work...
At the risk of incurring the enmity of Certain Kingdoms' Laurel Councils

for breaking the Confidentiality of the Order, (but we know it ain't the

People's Republic of the Eastrealm because we'd never have anything so

formal as a Laurel Council, we're more of a Free Trayned Bande of

Insurrectionists) I will reveal to the select few this secret cooking

laurel technique:


Place your dollop of batter on your bottom iron just off-center, by

perhaps ten percent of the total diameter of the iron, in the direction

of the hinge. Assuming you have the right amount, and only you can

determine what that is after a few trial runs (Napoleon is said to have

claimed the first crepe was always the property of the cat, this is a

similar deal), the action of closing the iron will push the main mass of

the batter away from the hinge and back toward the center.
Ultimately, though, the trick is to practice, observe during and between

trial attempts and adjust accordingly. Like archery, where you sometimes

have to calibrate by seeing how far off target your sight mark puts your

arrow, you then figure the spatial relationship between the calculated

mark and the real thing, and hold your bow accordingly. If your wafer

batter is dropped in the wrong place, resulting in batter shooting out

one side instead of filling the irons, place the next dollop a bit away

from that edge, and remember that everything will move, to some extent,

when you close the irons.
Of course, this can be difficult to do correctly when you're making a

dozen wafers, or even two, but if we're going to worry about getting

professional results every time, we should bear in kind that a

professional, town waferer, the guys crying their wares out on the

streets, with hundreds of wafers stuck on a big skewer, made them for

hours for many days running, possibly every day of the year, or most of

them. The closest most of us can get is to make them for a large event,

expecting the first several of the several hundred to be a little wonky,

the ones in the middle to be almost or functionally perfect, and perhaps

the last few becoming increasingly weird as the fatigue factor sets in.


> >> 1) Put a dollop of batter on and press down really quick and hard. Makes a

> >> very thin wafer.

> >> 2) Put a dollop of batter on, wait 20-30 secs and press down slowly for a

> >> thicker wafer (and not so much shooting out the side). Works for looser

> >> batters.

> >


> >Interesting idea. I'll have to consider trying these two and see how it

> >works. I was afraid to let it sit too long and usually closed it as soon

> >as I got a good dollop on each wafer area.

>


> Just a few seconds. I'm also using a manual iron that I sit either on an open

> fire or on a trivet onto of my gas stove at home.


Yeah, that's what I use, too. If it works, it works, and this applies

both to equipment and method.


> >Apparently it has not been uncommon in the East Kingdom. I don't know if

> >it has

> >ever been done at an Ansteorran feast. And I have only done it for a

> >Yule pot

> >luck local feast and for the Royalty and entourage at a small luncheon.

> >I'd like

> >to spread the idea around some in Ansteorra. It was apparently fairly common

> >at some period feasts.

> >

> >I never got the savory recipe to work either. If anyone has a recipe for a



> >savory (ie: with cheese) wafer recipe that has worked for them, I'd like to

> >get it.


The East used to have a radically different set of site-availability

dynamics than a lot of places, I gather, and when I first joined the SCA

(the time I stayed, that is) in 1982, we used to have a lot of evening

dessert revels. Wafers with snow (sometimes made by cheaters who would

simply substitute whipped cream for snow) used to be an old standby in

areas where specific people Had A Wafer Iron. We actually used to

contact people around the Kingdom and ask them to bring 600 wafers to

Twelfth Night. Come to think of it, we still do.

> I'm gonna work on the cheese and red wine wafer recipe till I get it right...
FWIW, I've found my recipe, or rather the basic Markham recipe, works

pretty well by radically reducing the sugar (but not eliminating it) and

adding some grated Parmagianno cheese. You have to watch carefully for

burning and there's a small percentage of crispness loss, but overall

they're pretty good. I haven't figured out how to do them as Le

Menagier's Toasted Cheese Sandwich Wafers, but these aren't bad at all.

> >> pps. At Lochac's Midwinter, I spent all Sunday morning cranking out

> Rosewater

> >> wafers. They were a huge hit. We actually had 6 year old, in total gales

> >> of tears. When asked by two ladies, he said 'I didn't get a pancake'.

> >> After being regaled of this story as we were cleaning up, I cranked out a

> >> small batch of batter and made him a couple. Never seen a set of eyes

> >> light up when he was presnted with 3 'pancakes' just for him. A magical

> >> moment (which are rare for me in the SCA these days).

> >

> >Very nice. I'm afraid such moments have been rather rare for me in the



> >SCA for awhile, too.
Sounds like a lovely experience, definitely one to restore a sense of

why we do this... on the other hand, my own recent experiences include a

small child discovering the wafers somebody had made ("You should try

those cookies! They're really good!"), then moving on to his first taste

of period gingerbread, saying with that bell-clear, penetrating voice

only a small kid can achieve, "Hey, I really like those big brown spicy

balls!" From there to having half the hall sounding like Isaac Hayes was

but a small step... .

> O, I dunno. You're a bit of a legend here in Lochac. I must know at least

> 30-40 in Lochac personally who use the floregium regularly. It's a very

> profound service you offer there.
I seem to recall doing, out of curiosity, a Google web search for

"Stefan li Rous" and getting 2,690 hits. It seems to be a significant

web presence, wouldn't you say?
Adamantius

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:06:17 EDT

From: Aelfwyn at aol.com

Subject: Subject: Re: SC - Wafer recipes


"Craig Jones."writes:

<< I'm gonna work on the cheese and red wine wafer recipe till I get it

right...

>>
We did wafers for our Northern Lights feast last spring. Used both the sweet

and savory recipes. I found that the savory (with cheese) one worked better

after the iron was well heated from having made about a hundred of the sweet

variety. My (okay on loan from my Mother-in-law) iron is an electric by

Villaware. I have also found that I can get a crisper wafer by using a

thinner batter consistency. Oh and they store better if sprinkled with some

granulated sugar in the sealed plastic baggie; less softening and sticking

together. Like Stefan and Drake, I'm still working on the fine art of wafer

making. Keep those recipe variations coming! I've learned that my husband's

Aunt has a nonelectric wafer maker and hope to compare notes with her after

Pennsic. She is Norwegian and makes 'em "like back home."
Aelfwyn

Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 09:41:12 -0500

From: Diana L Skaggs

Subject: SC - Re: OOP-wafer recipes


>Anyone else playing with waffers?

>-- Harriet


OOH, Pizzelles! I play with my pizzelle iron often. I'm planning on

taking my iron to a ren faire next month, and selling the wonderful little

things at a food booth. I've had my pizzlle iron for over 15 years...

My iron came with the following recipe, just a bit different from yours:


3 eggs, beaten

3/4 cup sugar

3/4 cup melted butter

1 1/2 cup flour

1 tsp. baking powder

2 tsp. vanilla

1 tsp. anise seed or extract
Mix together in order given (I mix the baking powder in with the flour,

then add). Bake.


Lately, I've been experimenting with different spicing. I used the basic

recipe, decreased the vanilla to 1 tsp, and added 3/4 tsp. cinnamon. I

also had a success with ginger in the same amounts. For a more intense

flavor, use more spices. The anise can be replaced with 1 tsp. grated

lemon peel ( or lemon extract), for a wonderful lemon wafer (great with

tea). Have you tried rolling them yet? If you pull them off the iron and

roll them around something the size of a broom handle, you can fill them

with sweetened whipped cream, or any other sweet filling. Leanna

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:59:31 -0600

From: Serian

Subject: Re: SC - rosettes? pizelli?
I'll jump in with more later, but, Rosettes come in some

really neat shapes, like butterflies.


The history of waffle cookies/wafers is a pet project of

mine because of a long history of a waffle recipe in my

family. (I know, some of you think this is a backwards way

to get into food research, but that's what sparked my

curiosity in this particular instance). I haven't read the

whole thread yet, so thanks to any who post other

information. ....
Here's my Wafer/Pizzelle research so far. Someone just told

me about a later period source with wafers made with cream.

This would have been entered in A&S except they allowed only

one entry per subcategory. (but my candy took 2nd).


Waffles

Prepared by Lady Serian


I have chosen one of the 4 ways of making wafers outlined in

Le Menagier de Paris.


Waffles [127] are made in four ways. In the first, beat eggs

in a bowl, then salt and wine, and add flour, and moisten

the one with the other, and then put in two irons little by

little, each time using as much batter as a slice of cheese

is wide, and clap between two irons, and cook one side and

then the other; and if the iron does not easily release the

batter, anoint with a little cloth soaked in oil or fat. -

The second way is like the first, but add cheese, that is,

spread the batter as though making a tart or pie, then put

slices of cheese in the middle, and cover the edges (with

batter: JH); thus the cheese stays within the batter and

thus you put it

between two irons. - The third method, is for dropped

waffles, called dropped only because the batter is thinner

like clear soup, made as above;

and throw in with it fine cheese grated; and mix it all

together. - The fourth method is with flour mixed with

water, salt and wine, without eggs or cheese.


Waffles / Wafers have changed through the ages. Somewhere

along the line, recipes developed that include butter and

almond or anise flavoring rather than wine and cheese.
This is an old (I can trace it back 200 years in my own

family) family recipe for pizzelles or "waffle cookies". I

am making it purely for enjoyment, and in contrast to the

period wafers I prepared for competition. A number of

ingredients differ.
Ingredients:

Flour


Eggs

Butter


Almond extract or anise oil (or extract)

Sugar


Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:41:38 -0500

From: johnna holloway

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Wafers recipe?

To: Cooks within the SCA


This is my version that I use. Historical notes follow--

See also my TI articles from the early 1980's for more recipes and

notes.
THL Johnnae llyn Lewis

----------------------------

Basic Sweet Wafer with Butter
1 3/4 - 2 cups flour (varies-- depends on how one measures and if one is

using jumbo eggs)

1 stick (8 Tablespoons or 1/4 pound) melted butter

3/4 cup sugar

3 eggs - extra large or even jumbo

pinch salt

Flavoring which can be 2 teaspoons of what you like: anise, almond,

hazelnut, lemon, orange, rosewater, etc. Or you can use ground cinnamon,

or cloves or combination of spices. Aniseed is traditional.
Mix eggs and sugar together. Then add flour and salt. Then add melted

butter and flavoring. You can do this by hand or use a mixer.

Egg size is a factor as some batches seemed to need 4 eggs; others only three. These 50 cents per dozen eggs seem to vary some in size.
[Depending on the flavoring chosen, one will have to vary the amount

slightly to get the balance right. This is very much personal preference

as to whether you want a mild or strong taste. You can also use fresh

orange or lemon zest and fresh orange or lemon juice. Also this recipe can be

adapted to using brown sugar and/or a mix of brown and white sugar.]
Bake according to instructions that come with your irons. You may be

using krumkake or pizelle irons. These vary in thickness from

manufacturer to manufacturer. Thin with milk if needed. You'll have to adjust dough depending on thickness or thinness of the wafers and type of iron being used. In general this makes a very good "cookie" type of wafer that tastes good and is well liked.
This makes 42 approximately of the small 3 inch wafers. They keep well

and can be done 2-3 days in advance. Store in plastic boxes. The thicker

wafers travel and store better. Thiner krumkake or rolled wafers are

more fragile and require more care. I tend to make and store flat, as

I usually do this by myself. If you want to make and roll the wafers, then

have someone else work with you. One person handles the iron while the

other person rolls the warm cookies.
Historical Notes from Red Spears Banquet-- Given in the Barony of the

Red Spears in December 2002 by Lady Helewyse de Birkestad.

http://www.midrealm.org/hrothgeirsfjordr/yule/feast.html
Scappi's recipes from 1570 calls for wheat flour,

rosewater, sugar, simple water, fresh egg yolks and using almond milk;

it serves as a source of comparison. Translations were made by Lady

Helewyse de Birkestad based upon copies that I found and supplied.


Scappi Cap CXLI , folio 420, book 6

To make wafers with crumb of bread and sugar.

Take crumb of bread and let it moisten in cold water and strain

it through a sieve. Make a paste of it and wheat flour, rosewater

and sugar and simple water and fresh egg yolks. Because otherwise

you won’t be able to make wafers make the paste liquid and firm.

When you have the irons add a little malmsey wine, and make the wafers.

If you want it with pulp of capons boiled in water and salt.

Paste this meat in a mortar and temper with a little cold water

and pass with the bread crumb through the sieve and mix together with the other things and make wafers. One can also make with almond milk and egg yolks."


Red Spear's sweet dessert Cialdoni were made using my more traditional and

perfected recipe of white flour, butter, eggs, and sugar, with chosen

flavorings of lemon and orange. The thinner rolled Cialdoni have a

batter of the same ingredients thinned with the addition of milk. Having

made wafers off and on for most of my now thirty years in the Society,

I have found that almost all diners prefer the sweeter and richer wafer

Made with butter and sugar.
One problem with period recipes is that they can stick to even the non-stick

irons and that slows the process down to the extent that it's really not

practical to make them in quantities for an event. Another period recipe from a 16th century manuscript that I tried took almost four times longer to make and could only be made one wafer at a time due to sticking. The recipe complained in fact that the wafers would stick.
Johnnae llyn Lewis
Johnna Holloway

(yes, promised wafer cookbook is coming... one of these days)

Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:57:39 +0000

From: "Olwen the Odd"

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] appetizers

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Speaking of wafers, we hit on a good way to store them so they don't get

soft so we can pre-make them the day before. We use one of the round

plastic cooler jugs (the personal size ones) The wafers fit in nicely

stacked and snug so even knocking the jugs around they are safe and crisp.


Olwen

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 13:18:07 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] appetizers

To: Cooks within the SCA
[transporting or storing wafers]

I use gallon or gallon and a half plastic containers that come with

ice cream. The small wafers go in three stacks per container. Larger

ones are placed in the middle and are then filled in with other wafers

around the edges. The thinner krumkakes are the ones that are subject

to breaking.


Johnnae

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 15:31:59 EST

From: KristiWhyKelly at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] appetizers

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
If you are trying to store a large number of wafers a foil lined copy paper

box will do the trick. I stored over 1600 of them for over a month, they

stayed crisp and didn't go stale.
Grace

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:30:31 EST

From: KristiWhyKelly at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] wafers

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
I did it for Atlantia 20 year a few years back, it was the Sunday meal. It

took 6 copy paper boxes and I had to use 6 gallon sized zip locs for the rest.

The boxes were lined with foil and then I put a sheet or two on top of the

filled box then the lid. The wafers were in good shape (not too many broken)

and still crisp and fresh tasting.
We were a team of 3 people, I mixed the batches and my two girl friends

manned two pizzelle irons each. We did it in two nights. Not bad!


The recipe that I used was from 'All the King's cooks' but I did flavor them

with modern flavors. Anise 1000 and 600 lavender.


I had lots left over and they kept for at least an other month in the boxes,

by then I was sick of them and threw them away.


Grace
pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com writes:

Grace commented:

>>>>

> If you are trying to store a large number of wafers a foil lined copy paper



> box will do the trick. I stored over 1600 of them for over a month, they

> stayed crisp and didn't go stale.<<<

>

> 1600? How many copy paper boxes did that take? And how long did it take you



> to make that many? I'm surprised you weren't worried about the first ones

> going stale before you finished the last ones. Last Thursday night I baked

> wafers for the cookie exchange. It took me about an hour and a half to make 38

> with my iron. 1600? Was this by yourself or did you have an army of bakers and

> pizelle irons to do this? 1600? :-)

>

> And which recipe did you use? Was it one that has been discussed here



> previously?

>

> Stefan


Ok, now I'm wondering. My sweetie and I once were trying to figure out how

long it would take to make the 20,000 to 30,000 wafers that Chiquart says

to have your pastry cook make, and I was wondering what the members of

this fine list might have to say on the topic.


Using my manual non-electric krumkake iron, on the electric stove, it took

about two minutes per wafer. By my calculations that would be about 1000

man-hours to make that many wafers, and that's just the cooking part.
Margaret

Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 14:31:09 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject Re: [Sca-cooks] wafers

To: Cooks within the SCA
SCAbeathog at cs.com wrote:

> Our local cooking guild is considering serving wafers at our upcoming Baron's

> Feast, preparing most of them ahead of time and, perhaps, some on site (this

> is an outdoor event). I just spent a pleasant hour or so in Stefan's

> Florlegium Archive and now, armed with advice, am ready to begin

> experimenting!

>

> My question is, what should we serve with them? Snow is mentioned, which we



> might like to try. But, I recall someone, on this list, offering several

> other suggstions, but I can't find this posting. Does anyone recall?

> I believe lemon curd was one, but what else?

>

> Beathog


Lots of people just eat them like modern cookies.

They pick them up off the trays and just walk off

munching them. They go well with various fruits

and things like apple sauce and creams. Where

or how would you eat a modern sugar cone or

waffle cone if it was served without ice cream?


Johnnae

Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:36:38 -0500

From: "Barara Benson"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] wafers

To: "Cooks within the SCA"
I frequently serve Wafers with Angel's Food. A concoction of Rocitta,

Marscapone, Sugar and Rose Water. Sometimes, in addition to the Angel's

Food I serve a tart fruit preserve that complements it nicely.
THL Tara Carr revently served them at a feast to accompany Zabaglone.
--Serena da Riva

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:30:14 -0400

From: Daniel Myers

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] SWEET wafers?

To: Cooks within the SCA
On Jun 24, 2004, at 8:10 AM, Bronwynmgn at aol.com wrote:

> I was planning on making some wafers for the hospitality suite for Known

> World Heraldic and Scribal Symposium this weekend, and noticed something very

> interesting. The only actual wafer recipes I have in my sources are from Le

> Menagier. None of his 5 versions mentions sugar or any other sweetening - they are

> basically flour, eggs, wine, sometimes salt, and sometimes cheese. I've made

> these, and they've come out pretty bland, although the cheese ones come out

> kind of like cheese crackers and are passable. I suppose using a sweet wine

> might make them a bit sweeter.

>

> On the other hand, nearly every redaction I've seen for wafers includes sugar



> and comes out sweet, like a modern pizzelle. Are there any period (for my

> purposes, 15th century and earlier, European) wafers recipe which call for

> sweetening in the batter?
Here's one - though it has the cheese and such as well.
[Source: Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books] Waffres. Take the Wombe

of A luce, & sethe here wyl, & do it on a morter, & tender chese

ther-to, grynde hem y-fere; than take flowre an whyte of Eyroun & bete

to-gedere, then take Sugre an pouder of Gyngere, & do al to-gederys, &

loke that thin Eyroun ben hote, & ley ther-on of thin paste, & than

make thin waffrys, & serue yn.


- Doc

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers)

Cum Grano Salis

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:21:11 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Life is Grand...

To: Cooks within the SCA


--- Craig Jones wrote:

> Bog standard fare for me and I must have cooked

> most of the recipes at

> least half a dozen times... Just a little bit

> of each recipe... Wafer

> iron was being a pain in the *ss. Kept

> sticking and the waffres,

> although crisp were still a bit too doughy for

> my liking...
Is your iron electric or manual? Is is regular

or teflon?


When I make wafers or waffles, I always use

a non-stick cooking spray with every wafer or

waffle I make, even if the iron is teflon-coated;

and sometimes, especially because it is teflon.

It is amazing how many thing will still stick

to teflon.


As for the doughy-ness, I believe that you should

have thinned the batter down with whatever liquid

you used in the recipe. Doughy-ness usually

means that the batter is too thick. As to how

much to add, that is a guess, depending on how

much batter you made in the first place. If I

had 8 cups of batter to be thinned, I would start

with adding 1/8 cup liquid and testing again to

see how it cooked. Eventually you will find

the right consistency. When you do, you should

mark the recipe with your additions, so that when

you make it again, you don't go through the

process all over again. Believe me, I've been

there and done that and remembered to mark the

recipe the second time around!
Huette

Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:23:49 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: [Sca-cooks] wafers

To: Cooks within the SCA
>>>

I have wafers/waffles on the brain! I've been

researching different recipes. Now, I'm on the verge of making some.
I can't find information on what would be more

appropriate, a pizellle maker, a krumkake iron or just

plain undecorated wafers.

Can someone pint me in the right direction?


Kind Regards, Clara von Ulm

<<<
Wafers? I am always game for communications on wafers.
I have four of the new electric machines now purchased

in the last 3 years. 3 are Villaware and one was Chef's Choice.

I know ths sounds like madness but I think own 7 electric ones now.

I also own a stovetop giro, two or 3

pizzelle, and at least one or two krumkake bakers for burner use.

You name it I own the version of it. (Remember I am ostensibly working

on a book on this topic. I keep running across good buys.

I have been into wafers for nearly 30 years. I did wafers back when few others were doing wafers.)


I suggest non-stick electric if you are planning to seriously

make wafers for a feast. I have done 600 plus using he Villaware

electric irons.

If left flat, they don't take more effort than doing "cookies". The thin

krumkake ones tend to crumble, but the sturdier Italian pizzelles make

up in advance and transport well.

The krumkakes are best made on site or require careful packing. The pizzelle

irons (either the two or mini 4 at a time) make a thicker cookie. I take

those out and let them harden up on a rack. Then they are gathered up and

put into plastic containers in stacks.


So that's the story. I would advise looking around because there are

some really good deals.


As to which I prefer, it's a toss-up. I like them all. The krumkake are

of course much thinner and more fragile. They work best with a batter.

The other ones can be either a batter or can be the type where you roll

balls of dough out or drop spoonfuls of dough on the plates. They all

make a good cookie. And the recipes vary enough that having a variety

of irons makes sense at least in my kitchen.


Hope this helps,

Johnnae llyn Lewis

Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:37:03 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Helpful Hint From Horatius...

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
In our Common Sense Earned The Hard Way department, I thought I'd

relate this little snippet which may conceivably come in handy to

some of you.
I found myself making a half-batch of the Markham sweet cream wafers

this morning, and had noted the previous time I made a batch that I

was having trouble getting them consistently the same size, and was

wasting a lot of batter due to spillage out of the edges of the iron,

which for me is one of the standard old-fashioned clamshell type

pizzelle irons that you heat on the stovetop. It's exactly five

inches across.
Anyway, I found that a level scoop from a #40 sorbet-type scoop

(which has a .8 fluid ounce capacity and one of those thumb-trigger

thingies that pushes the contents out) was the perfect tool for

exactly filling the wafer iron without overflow or empty space, so

that means more actual wafers from your recipe.
Of course, your iron may be different from mine, but I guess the

essential lesson is to find the right size spoon or scoop so you

don't waste a lot of batter. I found (not having known this

previously) that the adaptation I did of the Markham recipe (which I

believe is in the Florithingy) makes exactly four dozen wafers with a

five-inch iron and a #40 scoop.


Hmmmm. To sandwich them with chocolate ganache or not to sandwich

them. That is the question...


Adamantius

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:54:09 -0600 (CST)

From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pizzelle maker recommendations?

To: Cooks within the SCA
> Does anyone have recommendations for a particular brand or type of

> pizzelle maker?

>

> - Doc
Check in the archives for the discussions on krumkake makers--they're



pretty much the same thing except different designs. I have a Villaware,

and I've been pretty happy with it. Not sure where it was bought from, as

it was a gift, but if I had to buy one that's what I'd get.
Margaret FitzWilliam

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:42:03 EST

From: KristiWhyKelly at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pizzelle maker recommendations?

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
I've got three pizzelle irons. One a Villaware, without the non stick

coating and two black and decker non sticks.


After making batches of 1600 to 400 wafers, I would recommend the Villaware

over the black and deckers. The wafers come out faster, thinner and crisper

in the Villaware. The cheaper (by half) black and deckers are more waffle

like and tend to absorb moisture faster.


The Villaware wafers are easier to roll into the cigar like rolls you read

about in the books as well.


Grace

Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 22:22:42 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Wafers and ice cream cones

To: "mk-cooks at midrealm.org" , Cooks within the

SCA , SCA_Subtleties at yahoogroups.com


Ivan Day has added an interesting new tidbit to

his account of wafers.


http://www.historicfood.com/Wafer.htm
Those that take Food History News will already be aware that

the ice cream cone has been traced back to an 1807 Regency print.

The news was published there in FHN 62 in 2004.

Ivan Day now includes that information on his site.

http://www.historicfood.com/Ice%20Cream%20Cone.htm
Johnnae

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:30:08 -0500

From: "Michael Gunter"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pizzelles

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> So, any interesting recipe or equipment? What are you serving them

> with?
> Selene


For my Coronation feast in Atenveldt we served them standing

up in dishes of Creme Boyled with a touch of strawberry

coulis. It's a very nice combo.
Gunthar

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 06:56:58 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Just suppose... pre-1600 wafer patterns

To: Cooks within the SCA
> I still don't remember it having anything on the patterns on period

> wafer irons, though. I'd love to get such info though.

>

> Stefan
Short note--



Check out http://www.historicfood.com/Wafer.htm

for what Ivan Day has on wafers, inc. his irons.


Victoria and Albert's collection is searchable so you can look at

their collection via the web.


I have slides of early wafer irons from Belgium, but I can't tell

you when they were made right now. They were in a museum in Bruges.


Johnnae

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 17:32:21 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Orange flavored wafers ( was RE: Pomegranate

and Onion Juice)

To: grizly at mindspring.com, Cooks within the SCA


The recipe actually says "You can also use fresh orange or lemon zest

and fresh orange or lemon juice."

It's a recipe that one can tinker with. A number of the original wafer

recipes, especially the Italian ones, are very vague in their measurements.

Mistress Helewyse translated one of Scappi's wafer recipes
It reads in translation

_To make wafers with crumb of bread and sugar_.

Take crumb of bread and let it moisten in cold water and strain it

through a sieve. Make a paste of it and wheat flour, rosewater and sugar

and simple water and fresh egg yolks. Because otherwise you won't be

able to make wafers make the paste liquid and firm. When you have the

irons add a little malmsey wine, and make the wafers.

If you want it with pulp of capons boiled in water and salt. Paste this

meat in a mortar and temper with a little cold water and pass with the

bread crumb through the sieve and mix together with the other things and

make wafers. One can also make with almond milk and egg yolks. Scappi

Cap CXLI, folio 420, book 6.


Johnnae

Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 00:28:34 -0500

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] savory wafers

To: Cooks within the SCA
> However,

> I tried one of the savory wafer recipes once, and was less than happy

> with the results. This was one with cheese and it tended to ooze

> where it shouldn't and burn and simply be rather messy.


Try using something like Indian paneer, which doesn't melt. There

were fresh cheeses like that in period too. The "frying" cheese that

has been talked about in here might work too.
Ranvaig

Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 06:54:54 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Orange flavored wafers ( was RE: Pomegranate

and Onion Juice)

To: Cooks within the SCA


If you want them to be orange flavored try a combination

of fresh orange zest, some fresh orange juice and possibly add

either orange oil or a good quality orange extract.

I use the Boyajian citrus oils myself.

http://www.boyajianinc.com/citrus.html
You'll have to experiment by baking one and then seeing what the taste

is like as the taste of the finished wafer will be different than the

raw batter.
Orange flowered water can be cloying; I'd only use it in very small

amounts for perhaps delicate thin wafers.

You mentioned doing cinnamon and orange. You might want to try baking

just cinnamon in half a batch and flavoring the other batch with the

orange. Then compare the two. Cloves (freshly ground) works well.
Johnna

Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:31:57 -0500

From: "Terry Decker"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] waffles/holhippen

To: "Cooks within the SCA"
> http://www.waffelbar.de/Waffelgeschichte.html

>

> http://tinyurl.com/36gnv9 (Google translation)



>

> This is a German language site that lists names for waffles in

> various locations. Apparently holhippen is a type of waffle or

> wafer. In Rumpolt it is wrapped around a roller.

>

> Ranvaig


Think about the pronunciation, "hohl" means hollow or concave. "Hippe" is a

scythe or sickle (crescent shape) and is a colloquial name for croissant.

Applied to a wafer, I would expect it to be a crescent-shaped, empty shell,

probably for filling.


Bear (who only took a couple years of seeing the word to think of that)

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:30:36 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Wafer Irons dated 1481

To: Cooks within the SCA
Back in December 2006 there was a great deal of discussion

about surviving examples of pre 1600 wafer irons.

I have come across an example on page 114 of the new volume

At Home in Renaissance Italy. It's the V&A catalogue of their exhibit.

http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1487_renaissance/index.html
Wafering Irons, Umbria 1481

17.3 cm


It's part of the V&A collection but is not included in the collection that

can be searched on the website. At least the accession numbers and searching

under the subject doesn't turn them up.
Johnnae

Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:39:28 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Obleys and Wafers

To: Cooks within the SCA
On Jun 15, 2007, at 1:32 PM, Suey wrote:

> What is the difference? I thought they were the same.

> Suey
Generally speaking, they're similar. It can become confusing when

either term is borrowed from one language into another, or when a

translator decides for whatever reason to use one term or the other.

Speaking _very_ generally, and I'm sure there will be exceptions, I'd

say the main difference is that sometimes obleys/oubleys refers to a

form of offertory or sacrificial cake (I think this is from a Greek

word denoting exactly such a cake), that could be offered to a god on

an altar (presumably burnt) or to the god's priests to eat. Sometimes

obley also refers to the Christian communion bread, which is also

often, but not always, a wafer. I'm not certain that obleys are

always cooked between two irons, while wafers pretty much are,

without exception, as far as I know. I believe I've seen recipes for

obleys that are cooked between irons are which are probably

functionally identical to wafers, but I've also seen lots of

references to obleys where we have no such assurance; for all I know

they could be baked in the hearth ashes wrapped in a leaf or

something like that.
Again, very generally, I think most English-speaking people

interested in history or food history probably think of obleys as a

small cake which may or may not have a religious significance,

whereas a wafer generally would not have an assumed religious

connotation, unless specifically qualified by saying, for example,

"communion wafer".


I'd say that in general, the terms are often assumed to be

interchangeable, but in fact probably not 100% identical. It probably

depends on the culture you're dealing with.
Adamantius

Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 22:46:48 -0400

From: Suey

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Obleys and Wafers

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Adamantius wrote:

> Generally speaking, they're similar. It can become confusing when

> either term is borrowed from one language into another, or when a

> translator decides for whatever reason to use one term or the other.


Right oh, the Spanish translation of obleys today would be "barquillos"

in my book. People are surprised at that as they are round when I tell

them that. I explain, no they are no more than rolled "obleas". They

reply ok like if say so. . . but then I have never met a Spanish

authority in cookery.
> . . .sometimes obleys/oubleys refers to a

> form of offertory or sacrificial cake (I think this is from a Greek

> word denoting exactly such a cake), that could be offered to a god on

> an altar (presumably burnt) or to the god's priests to eat.


Ok sounds logical does anyone happen to have the Greek around my little

Websters does not even have the word? Nor can I find the etymology for

it online.
> obley also refers to the Christian communion bread, which is also

> often, but not always, a wafer.. .I'm not certain that obleys are

> always cooked between two irons, while wafers pretty much are
I was waiting for you to answer that one cause I read your article

on internet! I found another definition which says obleys "are a type of

wafer" because it goes on to say they can be baked instead of cooked in

irons. Nola bakes his. Sent Sovi does not explain it just includes them

in a couple of recipes calling for them.
Assuming that is a more precise way to explain this item I am

researching wafers as best I can. Now I can't find details on the

English wafers but good castles and palaces had them in the Middle Ages

had them which consisted of a department of wafers as staff and a room

apart from the kitchen. I think it was in Westminster Palace where the

wafery was on the other side of the hall from the kitchen. Would that

indicate that there was no chimney there so irons had to be used? How

English were wafers cooked? We certainly have so many tons of wafers in

Westminster and on the London streets in Edward IV's time that they are

supposed to be the blame of Edward IV's weight gain during his second

term as king.
Suey

Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:37:14 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Obleys and Wafers

To: Cooks within the SCA
On Jun 15, 2007, at 10:46 PM, Suey wrote:

>> Adamantius wrote:

>> Generally speaking, they're similar. It can become confusing when

>> either term is borrowed from one language into another, or when a

>> translator decides for whatever reason to use one term or the other.

>>

> Right oh, the Spanish translation of obleys today would be "barquillos"



> in my book. People are surprised at that as they are round when I tell

> them that. I explain, no they are no more than rolled "obleas". They

> reply ok like if say so. . . but then I have never met a Spanish

> authority in cookery.


It is sometimes very easy to fall into a logical trap which says that

when two things have certain common characteristics, they are the

same thing. Remember our ...animated... discussion of hamburgers,

where I was trying to explain that two different foods can have some

characteristics in common, and a translator can even assign the same

name to the two items even if it was not originally intended they be

identified as the same thing: this is often a matter of convenience

for the translator or author, and to be honest, not all manuscript

scholars know very much about food, so it's easy to fall into these

little traps. I don't know enough about oubleys to say if they're a

type of wafer; maybe wafers are a type of oubley, or they are two

different types of some unidentified third item.


>> . . .sometimes obleys/oubleys refers to a

>> form of offertory or sacrificial cake (I think this is from a Greek

>> word denoting exactly such a cake), that could be offered to a god on

>> an altar (presumably burnt) or to the god's priests to eat.

> Ok sounds logical does anyone happen to have the Greek around my little

> Websters does not even have the word? Nor can I find the etymology for

> it online.
Heh. You're going to laugh. At the moment the best I can do is give

you what The Larousse Gastronomique says. Not the best information,

perhaps, but a start, maybe:
> Oublie

>

> A small flat or cornet shaped wafer, widely enjoyed in France in



> the Middle Ages, but whose origins go even further back in time.

> Oublies, which were perhaps the first cakes in the history of

> cooking, are the ancestors of waffles. They were usually made from

> a rather thick waffle batter and were cooked in flat round finely

> patterned iron moulds. Some authorities consider that the name

> comes from the Greek obelios, meaning a cake cooked between two

> iron plates and sold for an obol; others that it comes from the

> Latin oblata (offering), which also means an unconsecrated host.

>

> In the Middle Ages, oublies were made by the oubloyeurs (or



> oublieux), whose guild was incorporated in 1270. They made and sold

> their wares in the open street, setting up stalls at fairs and in

> the open space in front of churches on feast days. It was said that

> the most celebrated oublies were those from Lyon, where ap parently

> they were rolled into cornets af ter being cooked. The oubloyeurs

> would put them one inside the other and sell them in fives, called

> a main d'oublies. Often they would play dice for them with their

> customers or draw lots for them on a 'Wheel of Fortune', which was

> in fact the cover of the large pannier ? or coffin ? in which

> they carried their wares. By the 16th century most of the Parisian

> pas trycooks were established in the Rue des Oubloyers in the Cit?;

> by night and day the apprentices would set out laden with their

> panniers full of nieules (round flat cakes), ?chaud?s (a sort of

> brioche). oublies, and other small cakes, crying "Voila le plaisir,

> mesdames!'' (?Here's pleasure, ladies!''), which led to oublies

> being given the popular name of plaisirs. The last of these pedlars

> disappeared after World War I.

>

> oublies a la parisienne



>

> Put 250 g (9 oz, 2 1/4 cups) sifted flour, 150 g (5 oz, 2/3 cup)

> sugar, 2 eggs, and a little orange flower water or lemon juice into

> a bowl. Work together until everything is well mixed, then

> gradually add 6?7 dl (1 pint, 2 cups) milk, 65 g (2 1/2 oz, 5

> tablespoons) melted butter, and the grated rind of a lemon. Heat

> the oublie iron and grease it evenly; pour in 1 tablespoon batter

> and cook over a high heat, turning the iron over halfway through.

> Peel the wafer off the iron and either roll it into a cornet around

> a wooden cone or leave it flat.


Again, I can't vouch for the accuracy of any of this, I can only

report what it says. This is the 1985 American edition, edited by

Jennifer Harvey Lang.
>> obley also refers to the Christian communion bread, which is also

>> often, but not always, a wafer.. .I'm not certain that obleys are

>> always cooked between two irons, while wafers pretty much are

> I was waiting for you to answer that one cause I read your article

> on internet! I found another definition which says obleys "are a type of

> wafer" because it goes on to say they can be baked instead of cooked in

> irons. Nola bakes his. Sent Sovi does not explain it just includes them

> in a couple of recipes calling for them.

> Assuming that is a more precise way to explain this item I am

> researching wafers as best I can. Now I can't find details on the

> English waferys but good castles and palaces had them in the Middle Ages

> had them which consisted of a department of wafers as staff and a room

> apart from the kitchen. I think it was in Westminster Palace where the

> wafery was on the other side of the hall from the kitchen. Would that

> indicate that there was no chimney there so irons had to be used? How

> English were wafers cooked? We certainly have so many tons of wafers in

> Westminster and on the London streets in Edward IV's time that they are

> supposed to be the blame of Edward IV's weight gain during his second

> term as king.
As far as I can tell, there are some early French and English

references to both oubleys and wafers (I think there are wafer

recipes in either Taillevent or Le Menagier, but I'm not in a

position to check that right now), and there's a reference to wafers

in both The Forme of Cury (and also Chiquart's Du Fait de Cuisine) as

an ingredient in other dishes: FoC calls for them (or wide pasta

losenges) as a substrate for a hare stew, and Chiquart as an

ingredient in his tourtes parmerienne, to separate the layers of pie

filling. I _believe_ the first written English recipe may be this one

from Harleian 279, later published in Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-

Books:
> .xxiiij. Waffres.--Take ?e Wombe of A luce, & se?e here wyl, & do

> it on a morter, & tender chese ?er-to, grynde hem y-fere; ?an take

> flowre an whyte of Eyroun & bete to-gedere, ?en take Sugre an

> pouder of Gyngere, & do al to-gederys, & loke ?at ?in Eyroun ben

> hote, & ley ?er-on of ?in paste, & ?an make ?in waffrys, & serue

> yn.
You're taking some not-well-specified internal organ of a pike,

probably the stomach or swim bladder, I suspect, rather than the hard

roe or ovaries of the female, boiling and pounding them -- I suspect

for the gelatin content -- adding soft cheese, flour, egg whites,

sugar and powdered ginger, and making a thick batter, which you then

bake between hot irons. Note that the spelling of eyroun, meaning

eggs, and eyroun, meaning irons, is identical here. I don't recall

seeing that elsewhere.
Incidentally, folks, on a tangential note: since I've once or twice

been asked the question, "what exactly is that Concordance of English

Recipes by Constance Hieatt, Johnna Holloway, et al, good for," I can

state that this is what it's good for: finding out where (as in what

source) recipes for various English medieval dishes come from. It is,

in part, an index to every English medieval cookbook we know about.

You still need the sources, but it's an extremely valuable

navigational tool.


Suey, if you read an article by me on wafers (did I write an article

on wafers???), I'm guessing you saw mention of my favorite English

period wafer recipe, which is from Gervase Markham's The English Hus-

Wife. It's somewhat later in period than some others, but still quite

recognizably a wafer.
Adamantius

Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 13:46:19 -0500

From: "Elise Fleming"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers, barquillos and nieules

To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org"
Okay... To add to the roiling confusion... Suey wrote:
> The point is what would be the proper name for barquillos in English?

> Now a Spaniard just reminded me that in church we are given

> 'ostias' during communion and we eat ostias or barquillos in the home

> with ice cream in particular today which are store bought and most

> popularly known as barquillos. What are wafers in Spanish she

> queried? I

> just looked it up they are: barquillos or ostias as per my Cassell's

> bilingual dictionary! Neither obleys nor ostias appear in that

> dictionary.

> A Spanish recipe for ostias consists of one kilo of flour mixed with

> lots of water to make a very runny batter. Drop one tablespoon on the

> iron and press until toasted. Now why doesn't the church make wafers

> like that? Oops now you caught again. I can't say wafers anymore

> without

> abusing the Queen's English?

> (Now just to add confusion to all this in Nola's original Castellan

> translation we have a recipe for Ostias with an accent on the i. Lady

> Brighid translates that as oysters. Iranzo in her modern translation

> into Castellan is more definite in her index saying ostias from the

> sea.


> Dog gone it I was so excited when I saw the word ostias.)
"Barquillo" (both Cassell and Velazquez) is defined as "a thin rolled

wafer". "Barquilla" is the conical mould for wafers, among other

definitions. Going backwards from English to Spanish, "wafer" is "oblea",

"hostia" or "barquillo", according to Velazquez and Cassell. Since the "h"

is silent in Spanish, it might be "misspelled" as "ostia", no accent mark.

There is no entry for "ostia" because the word should be "hostia". (Think

"host".)
"Oyster" is "ostra", not "ostia", unless there was an ancient spelling

that doesn't appear in modern Spanish dictionaries. "Ostio'n" (accent mark

on the "o") is a "large oyster". "Ostra" is Catalan for oyster, as well.

(It also means "bloody h*ll" as well!) I cannot find any "osti'a" at all.

That doesn't mean that it didn't exist in the Middle Ages, but maybe it was

someone's misspelling???


> Now I think we are cooking Sent Sovi and Nola use the words neules,

> nelles in their recipes which I have been calling wafers as per Lady

> Brighid in her translation of Nola's recipe: 91.
My Catalan-English dictionary gives "neula" as "rolled wafer biscuit". It

is possible that in our time period that it could have been spelled

differently as cited above.
Alys Katharine

Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 20:16:57 -0400

From: Suey

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers, barquillos and nieules

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
In reference to my queries and Adamtius' replies in messages vols 14

Issue 29 and 14 Issue 30 I am very grateful for all his replies although

I think I am becoming more confused every day but I am working to try to

sort my mind out if that is possible. In particular I am grateful for

pointing out to me pay attention to the Harleian 279 recipe which I

brushed over until now.


Now talking about "barquillos" and wondering how to translate the

item. A recipe for them is:

Ingredients:

15 g butter

2 egg whites

50 g butter

50 g flour

100 g powdered sugar

2 o 3 g vanilla
Preparation:

Heat the oven and grease the cookie sheets with melted butter. Put the

egg whites in a bowl, add the sugar and beat until the mixture is spongy

but not stiff.

Melt 50 g butter, sift the flour, mix these ingredients and slowly

add the egg whites and the vanilla.

Place the bater on the cookie sheets with a tablespoon distributing

it in rectangles. Heat 7 to 8 minutes until toasted.

Let it sit 2 or 3 seconds. Very carefully remove them from the sheet

with a sharp knife or a thin spatula to prevent breaking. Put the

rectangles on a smooth surface. Place a pencil at one end of a rectangle

lengthwise and roll the rectangle around the pencil making it look like

a cigarette. Place it on a rack to cool.
(By the way the recipe is the same as that for thin almond cookies,

"tejas" in Spanish, "tuelle" in French with the addition of chopped

almonds. They are not rolled with a pencil but pressed around the knee

of the baker which explains why different batches have different degrees

of roundness in different bakeries.)
The point is what would be the proper name for barquillos in

English?
Now a Spaniard just reminded me that in church we are given

'ostias' during communion and we eat ostias or barquillos in the home

with ice cream in particular today which are store bought and most

popularly known as barquillos. What are wafers in Spanish she queried? I

just looked it up they are: barquillos or ostias as per my Cassell's

bilingual dictionary! Neither obleys nor ostias appear in that

dictionary.


A Spanish recipe for ostias consists of one kilo of flour mixed with

lots of water to make a very runny batter. Drop one tablespoon on the

iron and press until toasted. Now why doesn't the church make wafers

like that? Oops now you caught again. I can't say wafers anymore without

abusing the Queen's English?
(Now just to add confusion to all this in Nola's original Castellan

translation we have a recipe for Ostias with an accent on the i. Lady

Brighid translates that as oysters. Iranzo in her modern translation

into Castellan is more definite in her index saying ostias from the sea.

Dog gone it I was so excited when I saw the word ostias.)
Now you quote from The Larousse Gastronomique:
> . . .night and day the apprentices would set out laden with their

>> panniers full of nieules (round flat cakes), ?chaud?s (a sort of

>> brioche). oublies, and other small cakes, crying "Voila le plaisir,

>> mesdames!


Now I think we are cooking Sent Sovi and Nola use the words neules,

nelles in their recipes which I have been calling wafers as per Lady

Brighid in her translation of Nola's recipe: 91. MARZIPANS FOR INVALIDS

WHO HAVE LOST THE DESIRE TO EAT, VERY GOOD AND OF GREAT SUSTENENCE which

I also translate as wafers. Did we mess up that translation too? Is

there a word for nieules in English?


The article I read in which obleys and wafers are mentioned is in

Crown Touney Feast, www.ostgardr.org/cooking/crown.xxxiiihtml


Did you did not write that? It appears to be so Master?

Suey


Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:16:04 -0700 (PDT)

From: Marcus Loidolt

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers, barquillos and nieules

To: alysk at ix.netcom.com, Cooks within the SCA


But the Western Church does indeed, still make the host, ie wafer

just the way you describe it, in fact it must be made that way by

Roman Canon Law, #924-926 describes, using only pure wheat flour and

water, unleavened, pressed into a proper shape.


Johann
Elise Fleming wrote:

<<<

> A Spanish recipe for ostias consists of one kilo of flour mixed with

> lots of water to make a very runny batter. Drop one tablespoon on the

> iron and press until toasted.


Now why doesn't the church make wafers like that?
Alys Katharine >>>

Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:35:56 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers, etc

To: Cooks within the SCA
On Jun 17, 2007, at 7:19 PM, Suey wrote:

> Master Adamantius and Elsie Fleming, I thank you so much for your latest

> contribution to this muddle of mine.
I believe there was some contribution from Master Johann, among

others...


> That is beautiful what you just

> wrote Elsie about nieules! I am so excited! Hope will be pleased to know

> that I have reviewed today a few more of my files but might not be so

> pleased that I have come to the conclusion that wafers are like plants

> in that this is the title of a family name in English while in Spanish

> and French the family name still is obleys because in Spanish at least

> we have no name for wafers. Within that family wafers/obleys we have the

> species wafers, obleys, barquillos, nieules, chauds and other small

> cakes.

> Austin in his Glossary and Index says Obleies and their various

> spellings are a wafer cake. . . sweetened. . . that serves for the

> bottoms of Tartes and March-panes which concurs with Nolas nieules


I believe I recall a German recipe... is it in Ein Buoch Von Guter

Spise? which specifies wafers as a substrate for a marzipan tart, also.


> but Austin worries me because his gives page numbers for obley recipes

> which do not concur with page numbers in The Fifteenth Century Cookery for

> wafer references so I still have sticky differences in defining these

> species.


This is interesting. I can't find my hard copy of Two15CCB, and the

online versions seem to omit Austin's index. However, searching for

instances of obley-like word usage, I find two recipes that refer to

them, one for crusteroles and one for fritters, calling for dough

rolled to the size of an oblie, and for apples to be sliced as thin

as an oblie, respectively. In both cases, Austin includes a

parenthetical note to the effect that oblies are sacramental wafers.

Not "they resemble", or are a form of. Are. Which, as I say, if he

says elsewhere that they're a sweetened wafer cake, I think is a bit

odd.
> Why did Johnna have to go away? Where is our Lady Brighid?


Either they're both terrible people with misplaced priorities, or

else they're both supremely lovely ladies taking some well-deserved

time away from this list and the many contributions they've made

here, s**t happens, and patience is a divine virtue. I'm leaning

toward the latter.
> Thank heavens the rest of you are around to help me as you can!

> Interesting your comment Elsie on barquillos because Covarrubias

> cites obleys as a very thin pastry made in the form of a rectangle as

> clothes covering the coffin of the dead. Barquillos he goes to say are

> twisted obleys. Humm I always thought my buddy Ned IV of England

> fattened himself on round wafers.


Just out of curiosity, what's your source for that little factoid? I

ask because there's a piece of probable culinary fakelore from the

15th century to the effect that a recipe for Shrewsbury cakes fell

out of the pocket of Richard III into the mud at Bosworth Field (this

is probably a 19th-century fabrication).
> Do we have country differences here cause the French have cornets?
It seems many cultures have noticed that when you have a

floppy cake that crisps as it cools (the inclusion of plenty of sugar

is often a big factor there), you can form them while warm into

various shapes. I believe there's another reference in Larousse, in

an article on street vendor's traditional calls (I think the article

is entitled "Street Cries of Paris"), which refers to wafers being

simply stacked while slightly warm and impaled on a skewer, which the

vendor carries over his head like a distaff. I always wanted to serve

wafers that way at an event. But then, I also wanted to carve meat

onto platters from a spit held in my left hand, too. Oh, to be young

[er] again...
Adamantius

Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:58:40 -0400

From: Robin Carroll-Mann

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers, etc

To: Cooks within the SCA
I consulted my facsimile edition of de Nola. The word in recipe 91

(marzipans for invalids) that I translated as "wafer" is "oblea".


I then dug out my micro-printed edition of Covarrubias 1609 "Tesoro De

La Lengua Castellena" (whose print seems to have shrunk further in the

years since I purchased it). He defines "oblea" as a leaf of very thin

dough. Oblea which are half twisted (medio torcidas) as called

"barquillos". Those made "en ca?utos" (in tubes? in the form of tubes")

so that they are very folded (muy plegadas) are called "supplicaciones".


Alys Katharine, it may comfort you to know that Covarrubias says that

"ostia" or "ostion" are corrupted forms of "ostra" used by some people.

--

Brighid ni Chiarain



Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:38:28 -0500

From: "Elise Fleming"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers, etc

To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org"
Adamantius wrote:

> I believe I recall a German recipe... is it in Ein Buoch Von Guter

> Spise? which specifies wafers as a substrate for a marzipan tart, also.
English sources also say to use wafers as a base for marchpanes. May (The

Accomplisht Cook) says "...set an edge about it as you do a quodling tart,

and the bottom of wafers under it, thus bake it in an oven or

baking-pan..." Same for Markham (1615 - The English Housewife) - "...then

with a rolling-pin roll it forth, and lay it upon wafers washed with

rose-water..." Same for Murrell (1617 - A Daily Exercise for Ladies and

Gentlewomen) - "...make a bottome to it with Wafers..."
Alys Katharine

Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:42:14 -0400

From: Suey

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers etc

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Adamantius wrote:

> I believe the first written English recipes may be this one from

> Harleian 279 later published in Two Fifteenth Centruy Cookery Books.
The one quoted is in Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books, Harleian 279,

p 39, No 24 in Austin?s 1888 edition.


> However, searching for

> instances of obley-like word usage, I find two recipes that refer to

> them, one for crusteroles and one for fritters, calling for dough

> rolled to the size of an oblie, and for apples to be sliced as thin

> as an oblie, respectively. In both cases, Austin includes a

> parenthetical note to the effect that oblies are sacramental wafers.

> Not "they resemble", or are a form of. Are. Which, as I say, if he

> says elsewhere that they're a sweetened wafer cake, I think is a bit

> odd.
Crutse rolles are in Harleian MS 279 on p. 46, No 61 and Frutours is in

Harleian MS 3016 on p. 73 with no number.


> Just out of curiosity, what's your source for that little factoid? I

> ask because there's a piece of probable culinary fakelore from the

> 15th century to the effect that a recipe for Shrewsbury cakes fell

> out of the pocket of Richard III into the mud at Bosworth Field (this

> is probably a 19th-century fabrication).
Blast have spent the day going through the files I have on disks trying

to find where I got the info the Ned IV over indulged in wafers. It must

be in a book I haven't brought from the other apartment yet. As he over

indulged in everything else why no wafers?


Lady Brighid welcome back and thanks for sharing Covarrubias 1609

version, mine is from 1943. You quote:


". . . Oblea which are half twisted (medio torcidas) as called

"barquillos". Those made "en ca?utos" (in tubes? in the form of tubes")

so that they are very folded (muy plegadas) are called "supplicaciones". . ."

In Don Quijote Part II Cap 47 we have canutillos de supplicaciones when

the doctor tells Sancho Panza:
. . . que ha de comer el senor gobernador ahora, para conservar su

salud y corroborarla, es un ciento de cautillos de suplicaciones y unas

tajadicas subtiles de carne de membrillo, que le asienten el estomago y

le ayuden a la digesti?n. . .


. . .what his worship the governor should eat now to preserve and

strength his health and are obleys and some slices of quince that will

sooth his stomach and help his digestion. . . .
They also appear on the menu of the meal Philip II gave to to the

Portuguese in 1580. My understanding is the term "suplicaciones" is

obsolete today but that they bent (another meaning of plegar) or rolled,

i.e. barquillos today.


Suey

Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:36:06 -0400

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers, etc

To: Cooks within the SCA
> I believe I recall a German recipe... is it in Ein Buoch Von Guter

> Spise? which specifies wafers as a substrate for a marzipan tart,

> also.
There are also recipes for sour cherry and other fillings between two

wafers. I'll take a look tomorrow and list them


Ranvaig

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 01:08:59 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers etc

To: Cooks within the SCA
On Jun 18, 2007, at 10:42 PM, Suey wrote:

> Crutse rolles are in Harleian MS 279 on p. 46, No 61 and Frutours

> is in Harleian MS 3016 on p. 73 with no number.
Yes, I realize that, but my point was that I could not find a recipe

for oubleys in the Austin edition of those manuscripts. Just

references and the one recipe for wafers.
> I am still stuck on the French nieules don't we have a word for

> them in English or Spanish? Suey


Maybe the cake doesn't occur in Spain or England? For whatever

reason, France seems to have so many regional foods that are

completely different from what is eaten 20 miles away; I don't know

if this is the case elsewhere, but between town and village

specialties that cannot be legally produced elsewhere under that

name, rivalries between municipalities, different dialects, etc., it

may help not to look at these nieules as being a "French" thing, but

as a specialty of the town of X. Further, is it not possible that

there may be no counterpart elsewhere in France, let alone Spain and

England?
Here's (again) what Larousse says about nieules, for what it's worth:


"NIEULE
"A small round cake with fluted edges from Flanders, made with flour,

milk, a little butter, eggs, and sugar. In Moeurs populaires de la

Flandre francaise (1889). Desrousseaux describes neiules as 'pastries

shaped like large Communion wafers, made in a waffle iron' and says

that they were made on feast days all over Flanders. The town of

Armentieres claims to have originated nieules: in 1510, when Jacques,

Duke of Luxembourg and lord of the town, was presiding at a banquet,

he went out onto the balcony and threw the remains of a great cake to

the children of the town. The event was such a success that it became

an annual custom known as the 'Feast of Nieules'. The name is derived

from the Spanish word, ?olas, meaning crumbs -- at that time,

Flanders was ruled by Spain. The tradition survived until 1832, then

fell into disuse. In 1938 Pierre Baudin, a pastrycook of the town,

revived the custom for the carnival."


Adamantius

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 07:16:08 -0500

From: "Elise Fleming"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers etc

To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org"
Suey wrote:

> . . que ha de comer el senor gobernador ahora, para conservar su

> salud y corroborarla, es un ciento de cautillos de suplicaciones y unas

> tajadicas subtiles de carne de membrillo, que le asienten el

> estomago y le ayuden a la digesti?n. . .

>

> . . .what his worship the governor should eat now to preserve and



> strength his health and are obleys and some slices of quince that will

> sooth his stomach and help his digestion. . . .

>

> They also appear on the menu of the meal Philip II gave to to the



> Portuguese in 1580. My understanding is the term "suplicaciones" is

> obsolete today but that they bent (another meaning of plegar) or

> rolled, i.e. barquillos today.
The Velazquez dictionary gives "rolled waffle" as one of the meanings of

"suplicacio'n" - if this will add to the confusion! No listing for

"cautillo". The "-illo" ending sometimes makes a diminuitive. Out of

curiosity, who translated "un ciento de cautillos de suplicaciones" as

"obleys"? What happened to "ciento" which means either "hundred" or

"one hundredth"? (I suspect it is the latter??)


Alys Katharine

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:47:51 -0400

From: Suey

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers etc

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
I wrote:

>> Crutse rolles are in Harleian MS 279 on p. 46, No 61 and Frutours

>> is in Harleian MS 3016 on p. 73 with no number.
Adamantius replied:
> Yes, I realize that, but my point was that I could not find a recipe

> for oubleys in the Austin edition of those manuscripts. Just

> references and the one recipe for wafers.
Yes, I see but I think Austin that by only citing Cruste Rolle and

Frutours in the Glossary and Index on page 138 under Obleies means that

there is no recipe under the word obleys in these manuscripts. It seems

that for lack of recipes we are not finding evidence that can

substantiate Colin Clair statement that obleys are a kind of wafer or

Hieatt who says they are wafers. At another point she states that in Le

Menagier there are five ways to make wafers. Is she talking about

gaufrettes (wafers), oublies or tarts? (I do not have direct access to

French documentation.) Then James Matterer in his entry for wafres

concerning Canterbury Tales comments that wafers had several popular

names including: cialdone, nevole, nelles, neules, lozanges, oublies,

hosties, waifurs, wafron and wastel.


I find the same in Spanish as obleas seem to have various popular

names and offspring such as the teja or almond cookie as indicated in

previous SCA food messages on this subject. It would seem to me that

England the family name obleys was replaced with the Dutch name wafel,

coming from Middle Low German with the Norman invasions while in France

and Spain it remained obleys.


Suey

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:07:01 -0400

From: Suey

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Obleys, wafers etc

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Elise Fleming wrote:

> The Velazquez dictionary gives "rolled waffle" as one of the meanings of

> "suplicacio'n" - if this will add to the confusion! No listing for

> "cautillo". The "-illo" ending sometimes makes a diminuitive. Out of

> curiosity, who translated "un ciento de cautillos de suplicaciones" as

> "obleys"? What happened to "ciento" which means either "hundred"

> or "one hundredth"? (I suspect it is the latter??)
Sorry, first of all there is a typo here it is not "cautillo" but

cantillo (little tube). In my edition of Don Quijote the commentaries

are by Luis Astrana Marin who states in footnote 20 of that chapter,

page 1798 that "these are very thin tubes made with "hostias" or

"barquillos". Yeah in my haste mail the message last night I

inadvertently omitted the word "ciento". To me it means the doctor is

telling Sancho Panza to eat 100 barquillos. Also I just said quince

that's incorrect in this case I think membrillo refers to quince jelly

not just plain quince.
Suey

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:15:24 +0000

From: Olwen the Odd

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Hare in Papdele

To: Cooks within the SCA
I have successfully made and kept wafers in advance without them

wilting by popping them out of the wafer maker (mine makes two round

ones at a time) and once I am done with a batch I stack them up in a

beverage cooler (like this type http://www.igloocoolers.com/products/

Consumer/SoftSides/PersonalBeverage/168/ ) where they stack snuggly

enough to avoid breakage also. Mine lasted two days in the coolers.

I had different flavors and put them in different coolers with labels.
Olwen
<<< I had planned on just cooking a wide lasagne pasta but maybe

I'll somehow get adventurious and try cheese wafres. I have a wafre

maker at home and there are probably more in the area. It will

depend on how much more work I'm going to need to do for the feast.

They might even be made on site.
Gunthar >>>

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:59:38 -0700 (PDT)

From: wheezul at canby.com

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] On Nattes
I think I have more questions than answers!
Basically these are layered skins from evaporated milk layered with sugar,

rosewater and wafers. The first question I have is about the name of the

dish "Nattes". I don't quite know if I can translate this - maybe someone

here knows. To naetschen is the Swiss vernacular for making a popping

sound when opening one's mouth. A Natter is an adder. Nett is a net. I

wonder if nett could have a wider meaning of a cover or blanket. Then the

name would make sense, but I can't see how net would apply to the final

product otherwise. However the word bestrichen does mean to cover with a

net as well. Maybe it's like a "Nonne" (nun) and is just a name.
The next question is about wafers - ablaten/oblaten in this case. I know

that they refer to unleavened communion wafers and are still available for

baking German lebkuchen. It's used a with a little variation in Wecker,

so I'm not sure they are always these and medievally appeared to mean some

sort of baked good (outside of a communion host). However, Anna Wecker

also says that they are made from round flat irons and implies that one

may "find them" rather than "make them". Further, a recipe in another

cookbook for filled oblaten specified that one should take care to make

sure that it stayed white before frying them. So I'm leaning toward the

white wafer concept. Does anyone have a period recipe for a communion

wafer?
Anyway, the recipe with the German without the diacritcal marks:
Von Nattes

Mann thut sechs oder sieben stubichen

Milch in einen Messingskessel / lests fuenff oder sechs

mahl auffsieden vnd scheumets alzeit rein ab / gibt sie

darnach in etzliche Erdenescheusseln so wirdt oben eine

haut darauff / die sol man abnehment vnnd leggen sie

eine auff die ander in Confect schalen oder Silber

besprenget sie mit Rosenwasser oder Zucker vnnd be-

stricht sie mit Ablaten / seud dan die Milch fuenff oder

sechs mahl wider auff / das thut man offt vnd nimbts

allwege die haut davon vnd bestrewet eine jede dann-

wenn man sie in die Confectschalen legt mit Rosen-

wasser vnd Zucker / besticht sie mit Ablaten / etc.
About Nattes

One does six or seven stubichen [liquid measure]

[of] milk in a brass kettle / let it five or six

times come to a boil and skim [it] up clean all the time / give it

next in some earthenware bowls so it will on the top

a skin thereon [develop] / this should one take up and lay it

one on the other in a confect dish or silver [dish]

sprinkle it with rose water or sugar and cover

them with wafers / bring to a boil then the milk five or

six times again / that one does repeatedly and takes

each time the skin therefrom and bestrews each one then

when one lays them in the confect dish with rosewater

and sugar / cover it with wafers / etc.
Katherine
p.s. I'm having a bit of trouble reading the last couple letters in the

center gutter of my copy of the facsimile so if someone notes that the

words at the end aren't quite right, please let me know.

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 00:04:49 -0700 (PDT)

From: wheezul at canby.com

To: "Cooks within the SCA"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] On Nattes
In Anna Wecker's lovely recipe for almond waffles she tells us that waffle

irons are not smooth (and round) like the ones specifically for "oblaten"

and that waffle irons have designs engraved. Weirdly though, most of the

extant 16th century irons are round and feature designs. She also tells

one to regulate the thickness of the batter depending on the depth of the

waffle iron.


One of the tidbits I have run across about oblaten comes with my

experiments at baking lebkuchen. Some traditional recipes bake modern

versions on "back-oblaten" which are thin white unseasoned wafers.

Although I can't exactly call to mind - I think it was in a book on

lebkuchen molds maybe - I read that the practice was started by medieval

monks as the baking surface in the oven for the sticky honey-based baked

good. No citation given though, as I recall.
Is the English word wafer a variant of the word waffle? If so, maybe

wafer is not the best translation for the word oblaten. They sound

positively nummy, at any rate!
Katherine

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 08:03:06 -0500

From: "Terry Decker"

To: "Cooks within the SCA"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] On Nattes
<<< Is the English word wafer a variant of the word waffle? If so, maybe

wafer is not the best translation for the word oblaten. They sound

positively nummy, at any rate!
Katherine >>>
In English, wafer to a thin crisp cake, biscuit or candy. Ecclesiastically,

it refers to the Eucharist, which is a thin disk of unleavened bread. The

word derives from Old French and is of Germanic origin. A waffle is a light

batter cake produced in a heated iron. In practice, waffles are commonly

thicker and softer than wafers. The word derives from the Middle Dutch,

wafel. Since Oblate(n) is used to refer to the consecrated host, it is more

correctly translated as wafer. Wafer and waffle can both be translated as

die Waffle.


Middle Dutch was used from the mid-12th through the 15th Centuries, so the

origin of waffle is early enough. Waffle is primarily used in U.S. English

and only begins appear there in print in the very early 19th Century. The

spelling of die Waffle makes me think that it may have been adopted into

German from English and is thus a modern artifact rather than one that might

occur in the 15th or 16th Centuries. So, waffle may be a poor choice of

translation in most cases.
It does occur to me that I do not know the meaning of wafel (it might

translate to wafer) and I do not have a Dutch-English dictionary available

to me (translation programs do not handle variations in meaning or

synonyms). So hopefully someone working in the Dutch corpus can provide

some enlightenment.
Bear

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 09:45:34 -0700 (PDT)

From: wheezul at canby.com

To: "Cooks within the SCA"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] On Nattes
<<< Is the English word wafer a variant of the word waffle? If so, maybe

wafer is not the best translation for the word oblaten. They sound

positively nummy, at any rate!
Katherine >>>
In English, wafer to a thin crisp cake, biscuit or candy.

A waffle is a light batter cake produced in a heated iron. In

practice, waffles are commonly thicker and softer than wafers. The

word derives from the Middle Dutch,wafel. Since Oblate(n) is used to

refer to the consecrated host, it is more correctly translated as

wafer. Wafer and waffle can both be translated as die Waffle.


It does occur to me that I do not know the meaning of wafel (it might

translate to wafer) and I do not have a Dutch-English dictionary available

to me (translation programs do not handle variations in meaning or

synonyms). So hopefully someone working in the Dutch corpus can provide

some enlightenment.
Bear

===========


Wecker refers to what I think of as waffles as:
"Ein ander form Goffern oder Eysenk?chlein"
So it seems that her word comes from the French gauffre - "gaufrer to

stamp or impress figures on cloth, paper, etc. with tools on which the

required pattern is cut" (from OED) which appears to have come into

English as the textile/hair tool - goffering irons. I'm interested to

hear what might be known about the dutch. There is an interesting entry

on Grimm's worterbuch for waffel and waffeleisen. There seem to be

medieval forms of the word and it seems to be related to the word wave,

which makes sense.


Hmmm, in searching through Grimm's entry on oblaten, it seems to be

interchangeable with hippen which I do have a recipe for! At least this

starts to give me some ideas.
"ein dunnes geback, flach oder zusammengerollt (= hippe th. 42, 1522,

vergl. oblatenrohrlein), schon im 13. jahrh. bezeugt: ein semel und zwei

obl?t. pfrundenordnung des klosters Geisenfeld 424; gefult obl?t. Germania

9, 201; nhd. oblaten oder hippen RADLEIN 487b; schweiz. ?blade, oflate,

offlete STAUB-TOBLER a. a. o.; oflaten, collyrae FRISIUS 249b; offleten,

huppen, crustulum 347b;"


Katherine

Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 19:02:49 -0700 (PDT)

From: wheezul at canby.com

To: "Cooks within the SCA"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] On Nattes
<<< Natte means braid in French

--

Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM] >>>


It also means a "mat" as in a little carpet in French. Now that makes

more sense to me.


Katherine

Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 21:01:51 -0700 (PDT)

From: wheezul at canby.com

To: "Cooks within the SCA"

Subject: [Sca-cooks] More thoughts on Oblaten / Wafers Long - recipe
I've turned to the dictionary and Stainl's 1596 cookbook to try to make a

bit more headway as to the meaning.


The Grimm Dictionary and the Mittelhoch-deutsche Woerterbuch both use the

word hippe, which is the word for a wafer outside of a specific usage.

There is also an occupation of a hippebaecker, which lends credence to

Anna Wecker instructions to get oblaten as large as one can get.


I'm very much interested in trying to understand the meaning of oblate(n)

in relationship to the recipes for filling them. I'd like to at least

make an educated guess.
So in comes Staindl for more enlightenment. He has recipes for 2 separate

kinds of filled oblaten. One the older fig/raisin filling and the other a

spice mixture that has the word "Spicedulum" which seems in context an

apothocary preparation. I haven't looked yet but I digress.


Immediately following the recipe for the filled oblate(n) comes the recipe

for holhippen, or rolled wafers. I thought I would share my translation so

far. There is a reference I don't quite understand when the instructions

mention a salueteig. So is this 'salve' as in salvation and Salve Regina

or 'salbei' as in sage? It's not the first time I've seen this, I think,

but I can't see what would be special about a sage dough - maybe it is the

dough used for the host wafer because of it being used in the iron?
Another question I had was about the reference to bitter or sharp. At

first I thought it might mean crisp, but then I couldn't find any evidence

of this in the dictionaries. But as I thought on it if you let the sugar

wafer burn at all it does get bitter. Is this line properly translated

for desire of bitterness, or a warning to not let it get overdone as the

next bit is about not letting the iron get too hot?


Staindl's rolled wafer recipe - diacritical marks replaced.
Von Holhippen am ersten

cxciiii


Mit Zucker bach es also / weich ein Zucker

ein / in ein lawes Wasser / das er zergeht /

vnnd mach einen teyg mit dem selben was-

ser / vnnd von waitzen meel / zeuech ihn fein

ab / gueuss immerzu eintzig / biss er dick wirt /

als ein duenner Saluenteig / nimb dann von

eim Ay oder zwey den dotter / ruer es darun-

der / vnd ein wenig zerlassen schmaltz / lass dann das Eysen er-

hitzen / geuess mit einem loeffel darauff / vndd trucks zu / hebs

vbers fewr / stip den teyg / darnach du es herb wilt haben /

misch offt / sich das eysen nit zu heiss werd / es verbrendt sich

sonst / die Ayrdotter machen sonst das gern ab dem Eysen

gehen. Mit dem honig / nimb ein honig / thue es vndter ein

warms wasser / vnd treibs fein ab / wie oben steht / thue auch

ein dotter oder zwen darunder / sie gehn lieber vom eysen / die

mit dem zucker duerffen gar wol eylens / dann sie werden geh-

ling roesch / man mag zu zeyten honig vnd zucker durch einan-

der nemen / sie gehn auch gern vom eysen.


[This entry is #1 in book six]
On Rolled Wafers as the first [item]

CXCIIII


With sugar bake it thus / soften a sugar

whole / in a tepid water / that it dissolves /

and make a dough with the same wat-

er / and from wheat flour / it thickens itself

/ pour continually until combined / until it becomes thick /

as a thin salve*-dough / take then from

an egg or two the yolks / stir it there-

under / and a bit [of] melted fat / let then the iron

heat up / pour with a spoon upon it / and press it closed / lift

it over fire / turn the dough / according to the sharpness [taste] you want/

meddle with it often / that the iron doesn?t become too hot / and otherwise

burn itself / the egg yolks otherwise make [it] easily from the iron

come off / With the honey / take a honey / do it into a

warm water / and thicken well up / as stated above / put also

a yolk or to there under / the go well on the iron / the

[ones] with sugar may [be] well done hurridly / then they will be

badly browned / one may at times honey and sugar take mixed together

take / they go quite easily from the iron


Katherine

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:03:10 +0200

From: "Susanne Mayer"

To:

Subject: [Sca-cooks] On Nattes
I do know for a fact that you still find wafer irons (round about palm sized

sometimes with "pictures" espercialy if they were intended for comiunion

wafers with overlong handles) at antique markets and high class flea markets

(pricy items and you need a wood fired stove for them to work,...)


I will have to check if there sis a oblaten recipe in Nostradamus (he does

use it but I haven't had it in hand for quite some time).


here is a german site with a bit of history and some pictures, maybe you

will find some things of interest on these pages:


http://www.waffelbar.de/Waffelgeschichte.html
http://www.waffelbar.de/Waffeloblaten.html
the term nattes f. in french does also mean mat which would make sense here

and with the love for all french (if it is not spanish it has to be

french,... the aristocracy either followed the french or spanish /

habsburgian court) this seem a good "translation" Mats or Matten does not

sound so "upity"
http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/collaborative/nattes/45333
French ? English

nattes n.

1) braids (pl.f.), 2) mats (pl.f.)
Katharina

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:29:54 -0700 (PDT)

From: wheezul at canby.com

To: "Cooks within the SCA"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Kochbuch der Maria Stenglerin (Augsburg 1554)
Oh squee Johnnae!
Although it's not a facsimile, it is wonderful. First read through I

discovered both the word waffel and Waffel Eisen (page 27)which relates

back to an earlier post about oblaten. So those words were clearly used

in Germany and it does looks like the transcription is faithful to the

common variant spellings from the 16th century. The waffles made from a

dozen eggs, a half a mas of sweet milk, clarified butter, flour and yeast

(leavening). They are allowed to rise and then are cooked on the waffle

iron. Nom. (Anyone remember the waffle wiffer? That would be me...)


A recipe for rose honey looks intriguing. And I like the apothocary

section at the end from pages 33 - 40 with various flavored waters and

sugars.
I thank the wonder reference woman once again :)
Katherine
<<< I've had a note from Thomas Gloning that he has a new

German cookbook available as a .pdf on his website.


It's a 19th century reprint of a cookbook (or cookery mss.) dated 1554.
Das Kochbuch der Maria Stenglerin (Augsburg 1554) (PDF).

http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/stenglerin-kochbuch-1554.pdf


Johnnae >>>

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:20:48 -0700 (PDT)

From: wheezul at canby.com

To: "Cooks within the SCA"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] On Nattes
<<< I do know for a fact that you still find wafer irons (round about palm sized

sometimes with "pictures" especially if they were intended for communion

wafers with overlong handles) at antique markets and high class flea markets

(pricy items and you need a wood fired stove for themn to work,...) >>>


There is quite a nice collection of period wafer irons on bildindex

(http://www.bildindex.de )


Katherine

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:25:21 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway

To: Cooks within the SCA

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] More thoughts on Oblaten / Wafers
On Jun 27, 2010, at 12:01 AM, wheezul at canby.com wrote and mentioned a

number of recipes and questions about wafers.


I had some time this weekend so I did some searching.

A 2004 German work that might be of interest is:

Panis angelorum - das Brot der Engel: Kulturgeschichte der Hostie

The Authors are Oliver Seifert, Ambrosius Backhaus


Panis angelorum. Das Brot der Engel, Kulturgeschichte der Hostie,

Begleitbuch zur gleichnamigen Ausstellung des Museums der Brotkultur,

Thorbecke-Verlag Ostfildern, 2004 ISBN 13: 978-3-7995-0134-7 It can

be purchased from a number of places. I think my copy came from the

Bread Museum at Ulm which released the volume. http://www.museum-brotkultur.de/

? Einzelpreis: 9,95 EUR 184 pages


Subjects: Art, European; Bread in art; Christian art and symbolism;

Food; Lord's Supper

It contains this chapter titled Geschichte (und Technik) der

Hostienb?ckerei which contains photos and illustrations of wafer irons

for making the hostie or what will become the consecrated wafers. Also

the other chapters contain a number of other artworks that feature



wafers.
Johnnae


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